Question about SD membership

[Gebirgsjaeger]

Hi,

my father told me the other day that his grand uncle was a member of the SD (Sicherheitsdienst) and that he (my father) had only recently found out because his grand uncle naturally kept it as a secret in the years after the war.

I then had a discussion with my father because he said that his grand uncle was a member of the SD without ever having been a member of the SS.

I am not sure, was it possible to be a member of the SD and NOT be a member of the SS?

[Laurent Daniel]

Hi, Gebirgsjaeger,
The SD was a part of the SS organisations and organigram, so whomsoever was member of the SD was automatically also a member of the SS, no choice.

Now, it may be possible that your grand-uncle was a non-SS policeman who found himself transferred to the SD without having volunteered for it. During those tough times, to say "No, boss, sorry, I don't want to become a SS" was an equivalent to commit suicide, let's not forget it.

The SD, like all SS units, was declared a "criminal organization" at Nuremberg, but the tribunal wisely didn't conclude that *all* the members of the SD were automatically criminals as individuals. As usual, some were, but not all.

So, the best for you is to conclude that your grand-uncle was one of those non-criminals embarked with little choice in a saga that was completely out of his control.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

I kinda forgot, but the SD was the SS intellegince agency or something of that sort set up by Heydrich, Schellenburg, etc?

[Laurent Daniel]

I kinda forgot, but the SD was the SS intellegince agency or something of that sort set up by Heydrich, Schellenburg, etc?

Almost.
Intelligence
Everything else correct

[John W. Howard]

Hello Gebirgsjäger:
There is another possibility. Many intelligence agencies distinguish between officers of the intelligence agency and the agents they recruit to work for them. It is possible your grand uncle was not a member of the SD as such, but an agent recruited by the SD. An example is the US CIA:
the men who actually work for the CIA are called case-officers; the people they recruit are called agents, but it could be said of both that they work for the CIA. It is possible your grand uncle was under-cover and thus not anxious for anyone to have a possible clue to his identity; someone discovering his membership in the SS would certainly be suspicious, especially if he was passing himself off as a tractor salesman for example. Hopefully this is of some help. Best wishes.

[Gebirgsjaeger]

Thank you all for your answers. I´m gonna interview the still living son of the guy concerned when I visit with him next month. Maybe I can find out a little more.

[awaygood]

When the SS absorbed all the police organisations, it was very likely that non-SS members ended up wearing SS/SD uniforms. Members of the SD who were not SS members were not eligible, according to uniform regulations, to wear the SD cuff patch, but would, from January 1942, have certainly worn an SS uniform with police shoulder-strap rank insignia.
So, yes, it would certainly have been possible for your great-uncle to have been in the SD/Sipo/Kripo (to which of these he would have been belonged would have been rather confusing, such was their structure) without being a member of the SS!
Similarly, members of the Eastern European volunteers serving in regiments and divisions of the Waffen-SS would not have been eligible for SS membership. Those who were, normally German officers and NCOs allocated to those units, were identified as SS members by the small SS-runes, worn on their left breast pocket.

[phylo_roadking]

John, the CIA analogy only applies to the foreign department offices, and then only outside Germany in the greater reich. In its Intelligence functions at home and about 80% of its efforts outside Germany it was more like a uniformed FBI, or MI5. The other 20% was of course the SD in its foreign intelligence role, where it was significantly more successful in "proactive' operations like the snatching of the two British agents over the border from Spain in 1939 or was it 40? than the Abwehr with its reliance on old-style networking and intelligence-gathering.

phylo

[Helmut Von Moltke]

hi Phylo, I think the SD operation you are referring to was snatching British agents in the Netherlands in late 1939.

Kevin

[phylo_roadking]

Kevin, there was an operation run by Schellenberg himself on the spanish/portuguese border, part of the events surrounding the attempt to bring the Duke of Windsor over into spain.

phylo