Relationship between Felders.Btl. and Div.Kampfschule

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richard hedrick
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Relationship between Felders.Btl. and Div.Kampfschule

Post by richard hedrick »

The Div.Kampfschule is made up of Lehrpersonal and Stammpersonal, the Lehrpersonal consisting mostly of Ausbilder (training staff or instructors). The Felders.Btl. has an Ausbildungsstaffel to accomplish this task but it has a much larger staff. (see the first two images below)

Now it seems to me that when a Felders.Btl. receives replacement personnel these new personnel fall within the command structure of the Felders.Btl. itself and this in part may explain the large staff in the Ausbildungsstaffel. I would also make the assumption that the Div.Kampfschule staff simply trains but i dont know if these assumption are correct.

So my basic questions are these:

What is the relationship between the Felders.Btl. and the Div.Kampfschule?

How do their training roles vary besides the obvious replacement role of the Felders.Btl.?

If a division had a Felders.Btl. why would it need a Div.Kampfschule?

Any help for comments are appreciated,
Richard


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hero.
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Re: Relationship between Felders.Btl. and Div.Kampfschule

Post by hero. »

Hello Richard !

Scanning some older posts, I was very astonished you didn't get a single reply to your very
interesting question. But after starting to search, I was surprised, that informations on this
topic are much harder to find than I thought!

As I understood it, regularly, the Divisionskampfschule was a company-size component of a FEB.
Usually it was the first of a total of 3 to 5 companies.

It's main purpose was the training of NCOs (Unterführer in german) for their tasks as
platoon- and squad-leaders, and a secondary task could have been the training of some specialists
as well (snipers, Pioniere, ...). An alternative designation could be Kampfschullehrgang.
The other companies had the task of training the enlisted men. This could be the answer in short.
Please allow me 3 further comments/speculations [to provocate additons/corrections] :

1.) I think the above explains the different size and the special purpose of a Div.Kampfschule.
What I do not know, is how permanent the composition of the Lehrpersonal was.
I have read very often the fact, that the germans withdrew experienced Officers and NCOs from
frontline duty for training purposes. This was done to keep the training in close contact with
actual battle experiences. So, I would like to know if anybody has an example or opinion,
how much of this personal was typically exchanged and on what timescale :?: ?

2.) I would be curious to know, at what time the first Div.Kampfschule was set-up ?!
At least at the beginning of the war they were not present in a FEB.
The first trace I found, is in Grundlegender Befehl Nr. 15 (Op.Abt.) titled:
Hebung der Kampfkraft der Infanterie.

At that time it was realized, that the replacement-situation demanded the general reerection of FEBs
(containing a Div.Kampfschule as an integral part). First for the divisions in the east, later extended
to the majority of all divisions. A major factor for this was the desperate need of well trained NCOs.

And interesting enough, even if the severe lack of manpower didn't allow for a complete FEB for a division,
it was nevertheless felt necessary to set up a Div.Kampfschule (see OKH order below). This order,
in combination with your KStN should give a good picture of the purpose, size and equipment of such a unit.

10. Aug., 1944: Aufstellung von Divisionskampfschulen bei allen Divisionen ohne FEB (u. d. Div. 29. Welle).
[cited from Scherzer, orig. source : BA-MA, RH 2/1108, p.141]

Gliederung:
- Zugfhr.Anw.-Lehrgang (27-29 Teilnehmer),
- Grpn.Fhr.Anw.-Lehrgang (für Gren.Kp., s.Kp.; 60 Teilnehmer),
- sonstige Lehrgänge (Pi., Scharfschützen. usw.; 36-48 Teilnehmer).

Waffenausstattung:
8 l.MG (34 od. 42 je nach Ausstattung der Div.), 2 s.MG, 2 m.Gr.W., 1 l.IG 37, 1 2 cm od. 3,7 cm Flak,
1 Flammenwerfer, 5 Gewehrgranatgeräte, 2 Panzerschreck, 30 MPi 44, Faustpatronen,
sonstige Waffen je nach Ausstattung der Division.

Important Translations :
Zugführer-Anwärter : platoon-leader-candidate
Gruppenführer-Anwärter : squad-leader-candidate
Lehrgang : course of instruction

I hope this helps, and thanks for posting the interesting KStN 8) !

Best regards,

hero.
richard hedrick
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Re: Relationship between Felders.Btl. and Div.Kampfschule

Post by richard hedrick »

Hero thanks for the response.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying, the Div.Kampfschule purpose would be to train NCO's so does this mean the training component of the Felders.Btl. would be for training the enlisted men in the replacement battalion? In the volksgrenadier division it appears that only the Div.Kampfschule was employed, at least in some divisions, so does this mean they could step up to conduct all needed training? Also the weapons list was much more extensive in the Felders.Btl. which gives the impression that training on some weapon systems could not be conducted in only the Div.Kampfschule was present.

Thanks again for the information.
Richard
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Re: Relationship between Felders.Btl. and Div.Kampfschule

Post by hero. »

Hello Richard !

Only after reading your reply I realized, that you are most probably the person
who runs the sturmpanzer website ! Please let me first express my gratitude for the efforts
of you and your co-workers and for the huge amount of fascinating data you are willing to share !
Really appreciated :D !

According to your questions (and btw, all informations I have, only refer to Inf./Gren. units),
my understanding is the following :

1.) Yes, the main-purpose of a Div.-Kampfschule (DKS) was the training of
Gruppenführer- und Zugführer-Anwärtern (= squad- and platoon leader candidates),
to qualify them for their coming tasks.
A secondary purpose could be the training of specialists.


2.) The following is my interpretation on the differences of KStN 125a (1.4.1944) and KStN 125b (1.8.1944) :

The Ausbildungsstaffel of KStN 125a comprises the complete training personnel of a FEB.
The personnel of the Versorgungskompanie has only supply and maintenance duties,
while the Ersatz-Staffel consists of the incoming replacements, that were to receive additional training.

From this personnel of the Ausbildungsstaffel, there would be formed a Div.-Kampfschule (as described in 1.),
and some other companies, with the task of training the enlisted men.

I understand the KStN 125b from 1.8.44 as a scaled down version of a FEB, adapted to its special task,
and especially the heavy weapons omitted (e.g. le.FH. 18 and Pak 7,5cm).
I think the reason for implementing this KStN for the divsions of 29th, 30th and 32nd wave, was that the
formation of these divisions was ordered in July/August under emergency conditions (the breakdown
in the east and the west) and therefore the divisions were only authorized the most important components,
to have them ready as soon as possible.


3.) I think this view is underlined by some excerpts of "Grundlegender Befehl Nr. 15",
titled : How to improve the fighting power of the infantry (see last post), which orders :

>> ... 4. Einrichtung und Etatisierung der Div.-Kampfschulen zur Ausbildung von Zug- und Gruppenführern. <<
[Formation and authorization of Div.-Kampfschulen to train platoon and squad leader-candidates ]

>> 5. Einrichtung und Etatisierung von Feld-Ersatzbataillonen zur weiteren Ausbildung des eintreffenden
Ersatzes zu vollwertigen Ostkämpfern und zum Schaffen einer hochstehenden Personal-Reserve, ... <<
[Formation and authorization of FEBs to further train the incoming replacements to capable fighters
on the eastern-front(?!)(sorry, my bad translation) and to build up a fully trained reserve ..]

This order was issued on June, 22nd, 1943, but neither the KStN 1191 (1.11.1943) nor KStN 125a (1.4.1944)
explicitly contain a Sub-unit Div.-Kampfschule. On the other hand, a number of Gliederungen around
1943/44 (as listed e.g. by Scherzer) explicitly do refer to a Div.-Kampfschule as 1. company of the FEB.
The description under 2.) is my only explanation of this fact.


4.) Regarding the training and qualification of NCOs, from 1942 onward the NCO-schools had in no way the capacities
to produce sufficient numbers of NCO-replacements. To improve this situation, additional courses were organized :
Wehrkreis-NCO-courses, Kampfschullehrgänge at the HQ of the field-armies, and finally the Div.-Kampfschulen.

From several sources I read, one point comes out very clear :
The german army put a very strong focus on continous training, whenever possible. Not only of the new recruits,
but to the same degree of the forces already deployed on the front. The importance and benefit of having a FEB
was never under question. It was only, that very often the combat situation didn't allow for training,
when every man was desperately needed at the front.

Therefore, on your last question, if a Kampfschule could also take up the duty of training of enlisted men,
I can only speculate : If there was the need of additional training for a lot of this men, I assume the
division would try to make it possible, by commanding a number of supplementary teachers to this unit, so that
it would be able to perform its task. But that would of course depend on the actual situation at the front.


5.) This is underlined by the fact, that a considerable number of VGDs set up a FEB on their own.
The following infos from Veit Scherzer, Bd. Ia, with regard to DKS / FEBs might be of interest:

>> The 17 Gren.Div.s of the 29th wave (most of which became VGDs) were ordered to form a
Divisions-Kampfschule (DKS) on Aug, 10th, 1944. At least eight of these ( 45., 78., 544., 547., 551.,
558., 559., 562.) expanded that DKS to an FEB by their own decision (auf dem Kommandowege) in September.
(and the 6. Gren.Div. as well).<<

The situation for the 25 VGDs of the 32nd wave was very similar :
>> While at the beginning of their formation they were authorized to have only a Div.-Kampfschule,
for the 62., 271. and 326. VGD the formation of a FEB was ordered. Eight more VGDs (18., 26., 183.,
212., 246., 272., 352., 708.) formed such a FEB "auf dem Kommandowege", and had it authorized until
November 1944. <<

Similar applies to the 12. ID, 16. VGD of the 30th wave, while the 19th had only a Div.-Kampfschule,
which was expanded to a FEB only in Jan. 45 (no info on the other divisions of that wave).

If this is correct, approximately half of the divisions already had a FEB shortly after their formation.
In Dec., 1944, all VGDs of both waves were ordered to reorganize according to Inf.Div. 45, including a FEB.


6.) I still would like to learn more on the actual set-up of DKS and FEBs and the exchange of personal.
But I hope this gives some base for further discussions !

Sorry it took me so long to reply,
Best regards :D ,

hero(.)
richard hedrick
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Re: Relationship between Felders.Btl. and Div.Kampfschule

Post by richard hedrick »

Hero,

Many thanks for the very detailed reply; you addressed the issues that I was trying to understand regarding these two types of units. I suspect that with manpower shortages the preferred method and the actual method of employing these units varied greatly.

I am glad you find the site useful.

Thanks again,
Richard
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Helmut
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Re: Relationship between Felders.Btl. and Div.Kampfschule

Post by Helmut »

Servus,
I have always wondered about this Division Kampfschule also.

From the previous posts it appears that this organization is similiar, if not the same as, the U.S. Army's Nco Academies. They also teach aspiring young Soliders the elements of leadership to becume succesful NCOs.

Any comments?

Regards,
Helmut
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