Commonwealth?

[Freiritter]

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm confused on what the Commonwealth is. I've heard that many former British colonies, ( Australia, Canada among others ) in the CW, still owe loyalty to the British Crown and before WWII, had relied on Britain for their defense in a major war. Also, a related question. Did the British military control Commonwealth forces in wartime, or was it an association of equals, like NATO? I spoke with some Canadian friends of mine, but, so far, still unsure. If someone could offer their thoughts, please, feel free.

[GPR44]

Hope these links will help:

http://www.mod.uk/wewerethere/files/before_1914.html

http://www.mod.uk/wewerethere/files/ww2_intro.html

[Shadow]

......... still owe loyalty to the British Crown and before WWII, had relied on Britain for their defense in a major war. Also, a related question. Did the British military control Commonwealth forces in wartime, or was it an association of equals, like NATO?.....

Speaking only for Canada:
Yes, the Commonwealth could loosely be compared to N.A.T.O., although N.A.T.O. does not share a common heritage bond as the Commonwealth did.
Canada was completely independent of British rule at the start of WWII and declared war, by herself, without British instructions. During the war the Canadian Army was fiercly independent of British military control and answered directly to the Canadian Parliament in all matters.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

[Freiritter]

Thank you very much everyone.

[nigelfe]

Not quite that simple. The Dominions were fully independent and self governing and were entirely responsible for manning and equipping their own armed forces as mandated by their own parliaments. However, their military administration was fairly closely aligned with British practices and in some cases they used identical military law on operations. Operationally it was quite like NATO in that national formations were under command of whatever formation they were in. This did sometimes cause some friction. However, it was also a two way street. For example in NW Europe 21 Army Group commanded 1st Cdn Army which in turn commanded 1st (British) Corps. British units (particularly artillery) were routinely under command of Commonwealth formations, but conversely individual commonwealth units werely seldom commanded by British formations.

Of course there were then 'real' colonies with varying degrees of independence, India was most important and was militarily (army) more important than all the Dominions put together. It was fully under British command and control and had large numbers of British officers. Newfoundland (which wasn't part of the Canadian Confederation) was a colony that provided units to the British Army but had no British officers.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Freiritter,

The Commonwealth is an evolving concept.

Today it is an informal association of all former British dominions and colonies. A few countries have withdrawn or been expelled since independence and returned (i.e. South Africa, Pakistan and Fiji). In addition Moczambique, which is a former Portuguese colony but is surrounded by six ex-British possessions, has been admitted. Other "states" that have expressed an interest in joining include northern Somalia (formerly British Somaliland) and the Palestinian Authority (formerly part of the Palestine Mandate).

There is a "Commonwealth Day", which is the former "Empire Day", but I don't know when it is or who marks it. We in the UK don't.

I think "Commonwealth" was first used as a geo-political term in Britain by Oliver Cromwell, who was effectively a military dictator during England's only period as a republic between about 1648 and 1660. This was known as The Commonwealth.

At least one of the British colonies in the Americas, Massachussettes (?), was and still is technically a "commonwealth" and not a "state" of the USA.

"Commonwealth" seems to have come into regular usage to cover all British possessions after Canada got self-rule in 1867 and the system of rule within the Empire began to differ from possession to possession.

The other white-dominated countries, Australia, New Zealand, Newfoundland, South Africa and Southern Rhodesia also had self government by 1923 and were known, like Canada, as "Dominions". India was an "Empire" in its own right. Most other major possessions were "Colonies".

Thus, during WWII there were not only British (i.e. UK) troops and Dominion (i.e. white colonial) troops, but Imperial (essentially Indian) troops and Colonial (largely Black African) troops. They were all described as "British Commonwealth".

However, it was more confused than that. There were Dependent Territories, League of Nations Mandated Territories (i.e. South-West Africa or Palestine), "independent" Indian princely states, federated states (i.e. Malaya), Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, Protectorates (i.e. Basuthuland), etc., all of whom contributed forces to the British Commonwealth and Empire as well.

I bet you wished you had never asked!

Cheers,

Sid.

[Rich]

At least one of the British colonies in the Americas, Massachussettes (?), was and still is technically a "commonwealth" and not a "state" of the USA.

Hi Sid.

Actually there are three former colonies in the United States that are constitutionally "commonwealths" rather than "states". Those are Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and Virginia. Of course that which distinguishes them from any other state of the Union remains somewhat obscure, even to their inhabitants - like me.

Ooops! I nearly forgot the fourth, my birth "commonwealth", Kentucky.

Also to clarify a bit, it appears the distinction is solely in how the states refer to themselves in their own state constitution. In the Federal Constitution of the United States no difference is recognized.

[Freiritter]

Actually, Sid, I'm glad I asked. I had no idea that the Commonwealth was so diverse. I thought that the Commonwealth was comprised of solely the independent Dominions like Australia, Canada and directly ruled colonies.

[sid guttridge]

Hi Freritter,

There is no standing Commonwealth military structure today, but you can still occasionally observe the hidden hand of the Commonwealth. The Monitoring force used in Zimbabwe-Rhodesia was entirely Commonwealth. Although Timor was billed as a UN operation, the vast majority of the forces used were from the Commonwealth. The same is true of most of the various peacekeeping forces in West Africa.

By the same token, the French like to keep a presence in any multi-national operation to French speaking countries. (i.e. Haiti today).

Cheers,

Sid.