StuG, PzJag units in East Prussia'45?

[Kelvin]

Operationable StuG's
904 (15/1/45) 30
190(30/12/44) 32
909 (15/1/45) 28
276 ------------ 20
279 ------------ 18
259 -------------31
209 -------------28
185 -------------25
4/920-----------6(attached to 209)
277 -------------22
203--------------26
232--------------29
278--------------30

As as 5/1/45 Heeresguppe Mitte reported a 'soll' of 336 StuG & JgdPz's, an 'ist' 301 & a 'Fehl' of 35 from 28(? hard to read) Pz.Jg.Kp's

Cheers

Hello, Don , thank so much . But I have many panzer division and Tiger abteilung data on Dec 30 1944 , so do you have these units above their operational strength on Dec 30, so I have rather complete picture of their strength prior to Soviet offensive.

Which kind of docment on Jan 15 1945, did they had some data on Panzer divisions and Tiger abteilung ?

It is very hard to find individual possession of StuG in infantry division and StuG mean all is StuG III ?

Thank again
Kelvin

[donwhite]

As time allows, I will try and post some indiviual figures for the infantry Divisions in Army Group Mitte. The reports are contained in the Pz, StuG & JPz Lage for the 30th Dec'44 through to 15th Jan'45. I no longer have the original scan (voracious hard drive) and my notes are not the best. There are some detailed posts by Martin Block on StuG IV issue & inventory/holdings for the 30th Dec'44 some time back - if not on this forum then possibly on Missings Links WWII Axis AFV's which will get you started.

Cheers

[Kelvin]

Hello , Don, thank for your information. Do Franz Kurowski book " Sturmgeschutz vor : assault gun to the front " had that kind of data for me ?

[donwhite]

I have never seen Kurowski's book at all so I don't know about what sought of detail is in it. Here are some figures for StuG, JgPz & Sf Pak serving with the infantry divisions of Armee Gruppe Mitte.

Where applicable, 1st # is the total present, 2nd # in brackets is the total operational. All numbers refer to StuG III except where noted specifically.

542.VGD 14x Stug IV + 2x Pz III + 2x 38T(PAK)
252.ID 1(2) + 4(2)x II(PAK 40)
35.ID 13 + 3x 38T(PAK)
5.JD 13(11) + 4(3)x T34
7.ID 14(13)x StuG IV
28.JD 10
541.VGD 14x StuG IV
102.ID 12(10) StuG IV
14.ID 11(9) StuG IV
292.ID 10(8)StuG IV
299.ID 9(8)
562.VGD 9(8)
131.ID 9
170.ID 7(3)
367.ID 8(6)
50.ID 10
21.ID 2, + 10xStuG IV in transit
61.ID 7(5) StuG IV
549.VGD 4(2)
1.ID 9(8)
69.ID 10
56.ID 10
561.VGD 10
95.ID 8 StuG IV
548.VGD 6 StuG IV
58.ID 8(7)
349.VGD 12(11)x 38T(PAK), 3 in transit

Cheers

[Kelvin]

I have never seen Kurowski's book at all so I don't know about what sought of detail is in it. Here are some figures for StuG, JgPz & Sf Pak serving with the infantry divisions of Armee Gruppe Mitte.

Where applicable, 1st # is the total present, 2nd # in brackets is the total operational. All numbers refer to StuG III except where noted specifically.

542.VGD 14x Stug IV + 2x Pz III + 2x 38T(PAK)
252.ID 1(2) + 4(2)x II(PAK 40)
35.ID 13 + 3x 38T(PAK)
5.JD 13(11) + 4(3)x T34
7.ID 14(13)x StuG IV
28.JD 10
541.VGD 14x StuG IV
102.ID 12(10) StuG IV
14.ID 11(9) StuG IV
292.ID 10(8)StuG IV
299.ID 9(8)
562.VGD 9(8)
131.ID 9
170.ID 7(3)
367.ID 8(6)
50.ID 10
21.ID 2, + 10xStuG IV in transit
61.ID 7(5) StuG IV
549.VGD 4(2)
1.ID 9(8)
69.ID 10
56.ID 10
561.VGD 10
95.ID 8 StuG IV
548.VGD 6 StuG IV
58.ID 8(7)
349.VGD 12(11)x 38T(PAK), 3 in transit

Cheers

Hello Don, thank so much
but exactly what the date for these StuG in their hand : like XX Jan 19XX ?

Kelvin

[donwhite]

kelvin,

As mentioned a few posts earlier, the figures are from the Pz, StuG & Jg.Pz Lage specifically for the dates 30th Dec'44 & 15th Jan'45.

Cheers

[Kelvin]

kelvin,

As mentioned a few posts earlier, the figures are from the Pz, StuG & Jg.Pz Lage specifically for the dates 30th Dec'44 & 15th Jan'45.

Cheers

Hi, Don, Forgive for my foolish question. Your figures for infanterie division from Pz, StuG, & Jg Pz Lage is either on Dec 30 or Jan 15 or average number between Dec 30 1944 and Jan 15 1945 ? Pls give me some ideas.

[Kelvin]

Operationable StuG's
904 (15/1/45) 30
190(30/12/44) 32
909 (15/1/45) 28
276 ------------ 20
279 ------------ 18
259 -------------31
209 -------------28
185 -------------25
4/920-----------6(attached to 209)
277 -------------22
203--------------26
232--------------29
278--------------30

As as 5/1/45 Heeresguppe Mitte reported a 'soll' of 336 StuG & JgdPz's, an 'ist' 301 & a 'Fehl' of 35 from 28(? hard to read) Pz.Jg.Kp's

Cheers

Your figures on StuG is same from Pz, StuG & Pz Jg Lage report on Dec 30 and Jan 15 ? And why so many figures is mainly 15Jan45 ? And all your figures on StuG only included operational figures without any short term repair figures ?
Sorry to bother you again.
Kelvin

[donwhite]

kelvin,

As fas as I can understand it, some units were reported as at 30th Dec 1944 and some units were reported as at 15th Jan 1945. I don't know the reason for this. If I'm reading my notes correctly, this particular lage shows 3 figures for each unit. That is # operational, #in repair & #in transit. So with the infantry Divisions the figure in brackets is the total operational while the figure proceeding it is the total on hand. The differrence between the two is the number under repair (short term?).

Cheers

[donwhite]

Sorry, ignore the previous post - I've just re-read your question.
# in repair for StuG Brigades
904 1
190 1
909 2
276 5
279 1
259 11
209 1
185 3
4./920 4
277 3
203 5
232 0
278 6

Cheers

[Kelvin]

kelvin,

As fas as I can understand it, some units were reported as at 30th Dec 1944 and some units were reported as at 15th Jan 1945. I don't know the reason for this. If I'm reading my notes correctly, this particular lage shows 3 figures for each unit. That is # operational, #in repair & #in transit. So with the infantry Divisions the figure in brackets is the total operational while the figure proceeding it is the total on hand. The differrence between the two is the number under repair (short term?).

Cheers

Hi, Don, thank so much for your help but still has three questions need you clarify :

a. Your StuG brigades figures except 190 StuG brigades all is on Jan 15 1945, so data on Dec 30 1944 for these StuG brigades is not available ?

b. Regarding infantry division Panzerjager kompanie, you said some is report on Dec 30 1944 some is on Jan 15 1945 but your list did not list which one is on Dec 30 1944 , which one is on Jan 15 1945. Is it data not available ? If you have exact date ( Dec 30 or Jan 15)for each infantry division StuG operational status, could you mind posting it ?

Best regards
Kelvin

[donwhite]

Kelvin,
A. I can only answer for the data I have & bear in mind that the veracity of these notes is not concrete as I currently don't have the original scans and my handwriting is not entirely legible. I don't know whether data for the Brigades was collected on the 30th Dec'44 or not. The collective figures for the Pz.Jg.Kp's mentioned earlier date from 5th Jan'45 but are from another report seperate form the Pz.Lage report. A Similiar report mentions StuG.Brig's for the 5th Jan'45 as well. As far as I can see the figures are pretty much same as the 15th Jan'45 reports.

B. According to my notes the following divisions reported on the specific dates.

542 VG, 252, 35, 5 Jag, 7, 28 Jag,102, 14, 292, 299, 56.ID's - 30/12/44

541.VG, 562.VG, 131, 558.VG, 170, 367, 50, 21, 61, 549.VG, 1 , 69, 561.VG, 96, 548.VG, 58.ID's
- 15/1/45

Cheers

[Kelvin]

Kelvin,
A. I can only answer for the data I have & bear in mind that the veracity of these notes is not concrete as I currently don't have the original scans and my handwriting is not entirely legible. I don't know whether data for the Brigades was collected on the 30th Dec'44 or not. The collective figures for the Pz.Jg.Kp's mentioned earlier date from 5th Jan'45 but are from another report seperate form the Pz.Lage report. A Similiar report mentions StuG.Brig's for the 5th Jan'45 as well. As far as I can see the figures are pretty much same as the 15th Jan'45 reports.

B. According to my notes the following divisions reported on the specific dates.

542 VG, 252, 35, 5 Jag, 7, 28 Jag,102, 14, 292, 299, 56.ID's - 30/12/44

541.VG, 562.VG, 131, 558.VG, 170, 367, 50, 21, 61, 549.VG, 1 , 69, 561.VG, 96, 548.VG,
58.ID's
- 15/1/45

Cheers

Hi, Don, thank for your answer for your question b and is very helpful.

But with regard to question a on StuG brigades, I am confused; this mean all StuG brigades except 190 StuG brigade , data only available on Jan 5 1945 or Jan 15 1945, not more on Dec 30 1944, right ?

And maybe some wrong writing, 252 division had one assault gun in total but had two operational , just in wrong order ? And one special unit 88. schwere panzerjager abteilung with Nashorn is no more in East Prussia in Jan 1945 ? do you know that ?

Kelvin

[donwhite]

Kelvin,

According to my notes ONLY, the 190th is the only StuG Brigade to report a strength figure on the 30th Dec'44.

I was unaware that the s.Pz.Jag.Abt.88 was with in East Prussia at all in either Dec'44 or Jan'45.

Cheers

[Kelvin]

Kelvin,
A. I can only answer for the data I have & bear in mind that the veracity of these notes is not concrete as I currently don't have the original scans and my handwriting is not entirely legible. I don't know whether data for the Brigades was collected on the 30th Dec'44 or not. The collective figures for the Pz.Jg.Kp's mentioned earlier date from 5th Jan'45 but are from another report seperate form the Pz.Lage report. A Similiar report mentions StuG.Brig's for the 5th Jan'45 as well. As far as I can see the figures are pretty much same as the 15th Jan'45 reports.

B. According to my notes the following divisions reported on the specific dates.

542 VG, 252, 35, 5 Jag, 7, 28 Jag,102, 14, 292, 299, 56.ID's - 30/12/44

541.VG, 562.VG, 131, 558.VG, 170, 367, 50, 21, 61, 549.VG, 1 , 69, 561.VG, 96, 548.VG, 58.ID's
- 15/1/45

Cheers

Hi Don thank for your help. I appreciate it very much.

Your notes did not have 558 VGD StuG operational strength, do you have it. And your notes forget to mention 349 division report date ( 30/12 or 15/1) can you tell me ? And your notes mention 96 division, I think it should be 95, just wrong writing , right ?

Apart from these unit you mentioned and Tiger unit, any independent panzer or panzerjager unit in your notes which did not mention in that ? I know German had several separate panzerjager unit in the East, but not sure still in service or not.

Your notes is very helpful to me.

Best regards
Kelvin