Die Rottenführer-Clique...

[Timo]

Did the Rottenführer-Clique (or similar) terrorize the common Schützen in more Waffen-SS units, or did this only happen in the SS AA 1?

Also, if this indeed happened in other units too, is anything known about the suicide rate related to the terror of the Rottenführer?

[Timo]

Die ganze Zeit über triumphiert der nackte Sadismus. Oberschärführer Schultze gibt sich alle Mühe, den jungen Kriegsfreiwilligen jeden Funken von Begeisterung und Vaterlandsliebe auszutreiben. Abends, nach Dienstschluß, herrscht offener Terror. Die Rottenführer-Clique, gedeckt durch Schultze, reißt die Herrschaft über die Kompanie an sich. Jeden Abend wird ein junger Soldat unter irgendeinem Vorwand zum Fahrzeug-Tross gerufen und dort von einer Gruppe stämmiger Rottenführer krankenhausreif geschlagen. Jeden Abend liegt alles zitternd in den Zelten, jeden Abend gellen die Schreie der Opfer von den Tross-Fahrzeugen herüber. Aus der 1.Kradschützenkompanie unseres 'Papa' Bremer oder unseres idealistischen Untersturmführers Schulz ist ein Haufen von Gangstern und Geschundenen geworden. Einer der Halbtotgeschlagenen desertiert nach Jugoslawien zu den Titopartisanen, ein anderer flüchtet in die Berge, schießt sich mit der 08-Pistole in den Bauch, als er von der Feldgendarmerie gefaßt wird, und liegt jetzt in einem Bozener Krankenhaus. Der Kompanieführer Coblenz tut nichts, dieser Hölle ein Ende zu bereiten. Ich spare nicht mit bissigen, empörten Kommentaren. Truppführer Bernhard sagt mir, ich käme auch noch dran, Rottenführer Ramschpeck hetze gegen mich, und als Abiturient sei ich bei den Trossbuben ohnehin für eine 'Abreibung' vorgemerkt. Ich überlege, ob ich vorbeugend zu Coblenz gehen soll, lasse es aber bleiben.

[NICK]

This sounds alot like the SPEC-4 mafia that is present in many current US Army infantry units, this a situation for all those not familiar where the NCOs allow their more experienced subordinates the leeway to square away newbie privates to the unit. This is the first I had heard of this in the German military, which is suprising after talking to a few vets and reading many books on the subject. Was this a common occurence in the German military as a whole or just Waffen SS?

[Enrico Mölders]

Hi,

I read many books about totaly diffrent Waffen SS units and I must say I never read of any such internal terrorism.

I don't want to say it never happens with any unit but I doubt it was a common thing.

bye Enrico Mölders

[Timo]

Well, it happened in 1./SS AA 1 (fact). Thus it did not "never happen". I am most curious if anything is know about numbers of men who ran away or commited suicide (succesfully or not), and if similar cases are known from other SS units.

[GWL_diegrinder]

I have read of the harsh treatment german NCO's gave recruits in the SS that were not Germans.

[Timo]

I have read of the harsh treatment german NCO's gave recruits in the SS that were not Germans.

...That's very interesting. Do you have more details?

[GWL_diegrinder]

In the book: "The SS: Hitler's Instrument of Terror" by Gordon Williamson
he stated: "...The tough SS training NCO's had little sympathy for the hurt feelings of their charges, and the usual training NCO bluster and bulllying of recruits was liberally sprinkled with abuse concerning their nationality. The compliants about the treatment of the recruits by their German officers and NCO's even reached Himmler's ears. As a keen adovcate of the recruitment of Germanic volunteers, he was enraged that his good work was being undone by the thoughtlessness of the training staff, and he saw to it that the culprits were dealt with. An increase in the number of suitable volunteer officers and NCO's allivieated the situation..." pg 109
This is not the only book I have read this. I have read about this issue in at least one other book, but I cannot remember which book it was.
However, Remy Schrinjen also stated he thought the training was good and he said: "They treated us just like they treated the German recruits."

[GWL_diegrinder]

Here is another quick quote I found regarding the same issue. In "loyalty is my honor. by Gordon Williamson (Gee its the same author)
"Some of the early foreign volunteers received less than sympathetic treatment from their German trainers. This cavalier attitude seems to have been extinguished rapidly once compliants were made." pg 31

In the same book Jan Munk, an SS soldaten in the Wiking Div. said: "I only know of one case of an NCO beind disliked, a corporal, because of his tretment of the Flemish in particular."
So those are some of the comments I have read.

[George Lepre]

Hi Guys -

GWL is correct regarding the abuse of recruits reaching Himmler. I once saw a document that Himmler wrote regarding the training of Volksdeutschen who were destined for the Division "Prinz Eugen." A number of the recruits, simple farmers' sons from the Banat, were outraged when their Reichsdeutsche instructors began calling their mothers "whores," etc. The Reichsfuehrer swore that if he heard of any instructors doing that again, he'd send them to Dachau. (And he didn't mean to the Verwaltungsschule!)

Best regards,

George Lepre

[HaEn]

Although I realize that I came rather late in the game ( March 1944) we did get some derogatory remarks from some of our leaders, but not from Rottenführers, rather from a couple of Hauptscharführers who had just been transferred from some East front unit and one of them openly stated that he could not stand those stinking "Kasekopfen" (Cheeseheads). He also had a east prussian accent or so. In general we all were treated equally miserable But I also did hear from dutch SS soldiers who came back from other divisions, that they had run into some of this stuff. However, it seemd to have been more aimed at Belgians (don't ask me why) than Hollanders. Just an old memory. HN.

[GWL_diegrinder]

Northwest? me too.