Who were the Kings of the Kessel?

Prit · Post by **Prit** » Fri May 09, 2003 10:47 am

I've been looking at Bagration recently, and found a division that was surrounded five times before its final surrender - at Voronezh, Belgorod, Cherkassy, near Minsk, and finally Heiligenbiel.

Can any other division exceed that?

Prit

Wolfkin · Post by **Wolfkin** » Mon May 26, 2003 7:49 pm

Hey Prit!

I am curious, what Division was that? I can only think of a couple of divisions that were surrounded, but only twice, not five times!

Leibstandarte at Kamenets-Podolsk and again at Falaise. I was going to say Das Reich, but I just thought as I was typing that they were not surrounded twice. Only a Kamfgruppe of Das Reich was at Kamenets-Podolsk and Das Reich was not surrounded at Falaise, they counter-attacked from outside the pocket.

Well, I just remembered, 14th Panzer Division was surrounded at Stalingrad, then it was reformed only to be surrounded and destroyed in the Courland Pocket in 1945.

That is all I can think of. I can't think of any division that will beat being surrounded five times!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

Doug Nash · Post by **Doug Nash** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 11:30 am

I'm guessing the 389th ID, which was destroyed at Stalingrad, rebuilt and destroyed again at Cherkassy and at Heiligenbeil -- didn't think they were at Bagration though.
Doug

Hans Weber · Post by **Hans Weber** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:09 am

Hello Wolfkin,

Don't forget the Roncey pocket regarding DR. It is a good example on how apt the Germans were to get out of hopeless situations. Especially Eastern Front vets seem to have had a deeper understanding on how to bug out...
Cheers
Hans

Wolfkin · Post by **Wolfkin** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:30 pm

Hey Hans!

Ahhh...how silly of me to forget that! Yes, the Roncey pocket that Das Reich was caught in after Operation Cobra. So, Das Reich and Leibstandarte were both surrounded twice! Thanks Hans!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

heinz kling · Post by **heinz kling** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 5:00 pm

Destroyed in Stalingrad, Bagraton and Budapest.

Prit · Post by **Prit** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:59 am

Wolfkin,

The answer is 57 Infantry Division.

This Bavarian division entered the Soviet Union with Army Group South, and after Timoshenko's disastrous offensive of early 1942, it found itself holding an extended section of front near Voronezh. During the general collapse of the front in late 1942/early 1943, the division was encircled for a few days, but fought its way west.

Later in 1943, during the retreat after Kursk, the division was near Belgorod, and was again briefly encircled. Once more, it managed to extricate itself.

The division's third encirclement was in the Cerkassy pocket (shame on you, Doug!!!). Despite its losses, Trowitz's division was one of the few formations to bring out most of its wounded, and even managed to salvage its field kitchens.

After a brief pause in Poland, Trowitz and 57 Infantry Division were sent back to the front, this time as part of Army Group Centre. Here, the division's luck finally ran out. Driven back by the Soviet assault, the division found itself encircled yet again, to the east of Minsk. On 5 July, Trowitz led his men in another attempt to break out westwards. His units rapidly came under fire, and the following day joined columns of men and vehicles from Panzergrenadier Division Feldherrnhalle. Once more, Trowitz did his best to ensure that the division's wounded were not left behind, but as they struggled westwards, the division became more and more fragmented, and only one battalion of Grenadier-Regiment 217 was able to escape. It fought on as part of Korps Abteilung C, and was finally destroyed in the Heiligenbiel pocket.

There must therefore have been individuals in Grenadier-Regiment 217 who were involved in all these encirclements...

Prit

Fridolin · Post by **Fridolin** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:01 am

There must therefore have been individuals in Grenadier-Regiment 217 who were involved in all these encirclements...

Of course, Hermann 'the jinx'

Commissar D, the Evil · Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:09 pm

Fascinating Prit, really fascinating. Odd how these stories about infantry divisions never seem to be told.
But I agree with Fridolin, that "Hermann the Jinx" fellow probably hung in there to the end....

Cheers,
~D

Prit · Post by **Prit** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:21 pm

Absolutely, Comrade Commissar. The accounts of Bagration in particular are full of stories that desperately need to be told - your old friends 78 Sturm Div, and 12 Infantry Div, in particular, stand out.

Prit

Commissar D, the Evil · Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:43 pm

Hmmm. Aw Prit. You never give up, do you?

Very Best Regards, David

Fridolin · Post by **Fridolin** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:45 pm

Why don't you guys finally settle for a modest, focused, feasible project and go for it? I'm sure you could do a marvelous job!
BTW what happened to the 'Muncheberg project'?

Tom Houlihan · Post by **Tom Houlihan** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:06 pm

Fridolin, my friend, look again at that post!

modest, focused, feasible project

Come now, would you really expect those adjectives to apply to those two fellows?

Commissar D, the Evil · Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:58 pm

I hate having sensible, intelligent friends.
I really do.

Best Regards,
David

Wolfkin · Post by **Wolfkin** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:13 pm

Thanks Prit!

Wow! The 57th Infantry Division! I was actually looking through some books, papers, notes and such to find the Division, I was actually going to guess maybe the 88th Infantry Division but I was still unsure.

I agree with what David said, there is just not enough info on these Infantry Divisions. Well, Panzer freaks like me don't help

, I admit that I have always been more interested in the Panzer Divisions but when I hear about what some of these Infantry Divisions went through it amazes me. Especially when one understands that they were no more motorised than units from the Middle Ages!

Thank you very much Prit for a great post!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

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