War in Georgia

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Uli
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

The U.S. is in no moral position to label the Russian invasion of Georgia "malevolent aggression" (GW Bush's words), a "...desire to return to old empire...." (John McCain), or "...genocide" (Barack Obama). Indeed the U.S. isn't even in a position by which we might even be remotely sanctimonious enough to comment on the Russian invasion.

The physical age of our missiles housed in Turkey nearly fifty years ago has no bearing on the fact that they once posed a direct threat to Moscow. The Russians respectively had every right to endeavor to emplace missiles in Cuba, and though we reserved the right to rebuff their effort, we were wrong in our self-righteous approach to the crisis. Trouble with the Georgian conflict is, the U.S. is neither in a military nor a philosophical position by which we might evict invading Russians--and why should we try, given that over the course of the past 63 years we've maintained literally hundreds of thousands of our own troops on foreign soil, often with the reluctant approval of host nations? Our largest contingency of troops based in the Far East are today berthed on Okinawa: Suppose for a moment that China or Russia--or indeed both--were to suddenly renew demands that these troops be removed in that they pose a potential hazard to the peace and security of the entire Far East? Stark truth is, Okinawans themselves have for decades been demanding our withdrawal, and with little favorable result for them.

The Russian invasion of Georgia is by no means a model of the Soviet invasions' of Hungary or Czechoslovakia. This time the Russians are acting in large because for the past twenty years NATO and the U.S. have effectively been seeking to encircle Russia and thereby isolate and further endanger her. Indeed among the first to flee Georgia with opening of the Russian invasion, were American military 'technicians.' (Even the average American knows who we're referring to when our government uses calculatedly obscure terms like "technicians," "advisors," or "observers." And we innately understand that these 'technicians' weren't necessarily there for the health or safety of the Russian border or Moscow's peace of mind.)

If in fact Russia dared embed troops in either Mexico or Canada, and called for Mexican or Canadian membership within a defense network beneficial to Moscow and her satellite partners, American leaders would scream bloody murder, and Americans would rightly be calling for immediate military action.

For the first time in a long time, Russia has the U.S. completely off-guard diplomatically and militarily, and I must admit--patriot that I am; flag-waver that I've long been, and remain--it's somewhat refreshing for a change. Truth is, we've been strategically checkmated by Moscow over the issue of Georgia, and our protestations ring rather hollowly at this point. Such is the result of supreme arrogance on our part.

This sort of thing (Russian invasion of Georgia) is precisely what one gets when one invades the distant, irreconcilable Middle East under the pretense of "regime change," and then, without sufficient reason and for an unwarrantedly protracted period of time, allows its troops to tepidly "peace-keep" at high cost to everyone involved.

If nothing else good comes from the Russian invasion of Georgia, it's great once again to see Mr. Roadkill painfully writhing at the end of a noose of his own making. :[] :beer:
Erwin Leibold 26.7.1942
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

Erwin Leibold 26.7.1942
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Annelie »

What a stoic bunch....of course I don't know what the singer was singing.
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by phylo_roadking »

Hmm what a strange day...

The world's press is gathered in Georgia waiting for signs of Russian withdrawal - and twelve hours now after the President of Russia said they would...guess what... :shock:

In fact - Russian armoured forces are spreading FURTHER INTO Georgia today...
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by sniper1shot »

http://www.canadaka.net/link.php?id=35950

Still no withdrawl....guess we can say we all saw this happening. Soviets can not be taken at their word. Just like the US and the first Gulf War HAHAHA
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by phylo_roadking »

"....rollin'...rollin'...rollin''...."

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... _Blockade/

The real fun starts around 2:30....

DOES THIS HONESTLY LOOK LIKE WITHDRAWAL???
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by sniper1shot »

Well.....they did try and go around it. HAHA
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RE: Making Ivan An Offer That He Cannot Refuse?

Post by Robert Rojas »

Greetings to both citizen Hans and the community as a whole. Well sir, in light of your installment of Monday - August 11, 2008 - 12:06am, old Uncle Bob was (and is) wondering if a certain "someone" did, in fact, actually preach to the political powers-that-be that reign supreme in old Muscovy. In terms of the projection of raw military power, there was absolutely nothing to prevent the Russian Federal Armed Forces from conquering the whole of the Republic of Georgia. Given the speed and momentum of the Great Russian offensive, the dismemberment and subsequent occupation of the Republic of Georgia should have been a fore gone conclusion. So, what circumstance or set of circumstances came into play to deter old Ivan The Bear from absorbing this former Republic of the now defunct Union of Soviet Socialist Republics? Now, in terms of anecdotal speculation, old yours truly can only guess that President Nicolas Sarkozy of France threw the proverbial gauntlet down and gave Moscow's collective political leadership a choice of keeping Georgia at the potential loss of Kaliningrad. How does that chess like gambit grab you? Has anyone been monitoring the movement of the Eurocorps lately? It's just some real politic food for thought. Well, that's my latest two Yankee cents worth on this Byzantine topic of interest - for now anyway. In anycase, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in the DOWN UNDER.
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by sniper1shot »

a choice of keeping Georgia at the potential loss of Kaliningrad.
Isn't this the German city in East Prussia?
I have to admit I NEVER heard anything like this. True, there really was no military power available to stop the Russians from occupying Georgia. That would of been a powder keg on its own for sure.
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

Actually, Phylo's "Truth" video says a mouthful in favor of the Russians, not against them.

A thorough perusal of the film will reveal that the Russian commander is a seemingly uncharacteristically patient sort of fellow: In the beginning he's badgered and bandied about by a clutch of camera-bearing international reporters and Georgian sympathizers. When this commander calmly instructs local citizens to remove their police-vehicle barricade, there is derisive, taunting laughter on the part of the sympathizers (and reporters?). Unable to convince the local folk to voluntarily move their vehicles, the commander at last marches to a lead tank in preparation to issue instructions to surmount the barricade by force (2:30-2:50). As he does so, a female voice is heard--the voice of a reporter? (the audio is [deliberately?] low in volume and slightly indistinct): Blurts the woman sharply (and suspiciously, in what sounds like the English tongue), "...Since when...since when did you become a Nazi?" (Not a necessarily positive or even a politely earnest question, given the presumed "non-partisan" nature and mission of the world press.) Indeed the woman's question is a rather vicious epithet at that, given that the middle-aged Russian commander is in all likelihood a son of a Red Army veteran of World War II.

The Russian armored vehicle then splits the barricade almost diplomatically, gingerly, and with surprisingly little damage to either Georgian police vehicle. (In 1945, a similar Russian armored vehicle would likely have simply crushed both vehicles without warning, machine-gunned the reporters, and scattered the crowd with air bursts from the muzzles' of their surrounding infantrymen's PPsh 41s.) But these Russian soldiers no longer represent the Soviet Union, and neither are they on a mission to eliminate Georgia proper. Instead, they're inside Georgia because Georgia--likely with tacit support of NATO (read: the U.S.)--fired first on South Ossetia, thereby opening the conflict and drawing a response from Moscow that could've been avoided had Georgia not initiated hostilities.

American Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice only yesterday warned Russia of severe recrimination on part of the West, though at this point, it appears that the West isn't in a postion by which it might apply effective military force, and neither are we in a moral position by which we can effectively chastise Russia diplomatically. At best--given our increasing nuclear encirclement and challenge of Russia, our arming and equipping of Georgian troops, the presence of American troops in Georgia at war's beginning, and Georgia's early assault on South Ossetia--we've egg on our face here, and it's difficult for all except the most vigorous of Anglophiles out there to admit our error in misjudging Russian duty and determination to protect her borders and ethnic peoples.

Chalk one up for the underdog this time.

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Erwin Leibold 26.7.1942
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

sniper1shot wrote:
a choice of keeping Georgia at the potential loss of Kaliningrad.
Isn't this the German city in East Prussia?
I have to admit I NEVER heard anything like this. True, there really was no military power available to stop the Russians from occupying Georgia. That would of been a powder keg on its own for sure.
Vwee nuzhdaetes Vozdeistvovat na vashu geografiu!
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Volgadon »

Don't you mean vam nuzhno luchshye izuchat geografiyu or something of the sort?
You can only nuzhdatsa IN something and vozdeistvovat means to act against something.

Uli wrote:
sniper1shot wrote:
a choice of keeping Georgia at the potential loss of Kaliningrad.
Isn't this the German city in East Prussia?
I have to admit I NEVER heard anything like this. True, there really was no military power available to stop the Russians from occupying Georgia. That would of been a powder keg on its own for sure.
Vwee nuzhdaetes Vozdeistvovat na vashu geografiu!
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RE: The Rodina's Often Overlooked Achilles Heel.

Post by Robert Rojas »

Greetings to both cousin Sniper One Shot and the community as a whole. Well sir, in reference to your inquiry of Monday - August 18, 2008 - 10:47pm, the geopolitical entity which is known as Kaliningrad is BOTH the name of the principal city AND the name of that portion of Prussian territory that was assigned to the former Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic courtesy of the now defunct Union of Soviet Socialist Republics after the conclusion of the Second World War. As the successor state to the now former Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic, the Russian Federation became the territorial inheritor of the Oblast of Kaliningrad. In terms of physical size, the Oblast of Kaliningrad is roughly one half the size of the nation of Belgium. And yes, the city name of Kaliningrad replaced the city name of Koenigsburg and the name of Kaliningrad also replaced the name of Prussia. In terms of incidental geography, the isolated Great Russian Oblast of Kaliningrad is flanked by both Poland and Lithuania. If memory serves, the nations of Poland and Lithuania both hold respective memberships with the European Union and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Old yours truly hopes this little blurb provides you with a morsel or two of information on this unique parcel of ethnically Russified real estate. ENJOY! Well, that's my latest two Yankee cents worth on this Byzantine topic of interest - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day up in your corner of the GREAT WHITE NORTH of the greater Canadian Confederation - EH!?
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

Embittered, philosophically-disjointed American and Western opposition to recent Russian intervention in Georgia, can likely be explained in the prescient thinking of one of the 20th Century's finest minds:

english.pravda.ru/news/russia/24-07-2007/95223-solzhenitsyn_accuses-0
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by sniper1shot »

You know.....you can keep blaming Western thoughts and Western mentality all you like. The Fact remains that the Russians and Georgian forces signed a ceasefire and the Russians have not fully honoured it as of yet. Have the Russian forces or Russia for that matter, ever given the Western World reason to trust them?? Not incl WWII of course.
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