Normandy Sitmaps

[PaulJ]

I am interested in German sitmaps from Normandy, 1944. Will any be coming any time soon?
Indeed, given the popular interest in D-Day, I'm surprised at the lack of them.

Cheers,

[Abicht]

Good news. Within a couple weeks the Normandy map set will be done. I researched them and found a few different sets covering Normandy. There are general sitmaps covering France from late 1940 early June 1944, then on and after June 14th 1944 there are specific Normandy sitmaps, and other odd ones covering such items as coastal defense ranges and observation ranges, numbers and attachment to Gemman Divs of Ost battalions (Ost, Georg, Armen, Turk, Nord Kauk), a small set of sitmaps covering the Cherbourg Festung, and a few more. They will all be included in the "Normandy Map Set". Again there are no specific Normandy or invasion maps exclusively covering that area from 6-13 June... just over all France maps covering it.

[PaulJ]

Abicht,

Good news to be sure, and I'll order them. But....

Again there are no specific Normandy or invasion maps exclusively covering that area from 6-13 June... just over all France maps covering it.

What do you mean by that? What files did you find maps in?

Here's what I've found, plowing through the NARA online site:
goto microfilm records () and under T312, are the records of all the German field armies. AOK 7 seems to be in rolls 1569-1571.
I first ordered roll # 1570, as that seemed the most likely shot, and hit pay dirt. The AOK 7 KTB for June is in there, complete with a sitmap for each day (except 10 Jun for some reason, which is just missing). Below is a shot of the map for D-Day itself.

I have now ordered rolls 1569 and 1571 in the hopes of finding July and August.

In other series, NARA has lists for each Corps HQ as well. Might those records contain even more detailed sitmaps? I don't believe their records go below corps. But they do go higher -- Army Gp B and OB West are there. When you write that you found no specific invasion front sitmaps, might you have been looking in those records?

Cheers,

[Abicht]

Ah yes the unit maps. As your pointed out there are many thousands of maps in the unit rolls from Division to Armee level. None of the maps I am working with are these, but the color OKH maps held in the cartographic division, which have not been digitized or microfilmed and can only be scanned or photographed with a visit to NARA. The unit maps, along with other data went in to feed the OHK maps.

The unit roll maps are often very nice and of course much more detailed than the OKH maps, but sadly they are in black and white, with the originals now at BAM.

I decided not to work with the unit roll maps and your pointed out, any one interested and with $65.00 can order them on DVD, and depending on the roll, can get a wealth of information.

If NARA was smart and truely interested in getting the records (other than microfilm and text) to the public (another topic I think) they would have digitized the 5000 plus OHK maps themselves!

[david ss]

Hi,
Have you seen a map that shows the deployment of the Artillerie-Regiment 191 of 91. Luftlande-Division in the spring of 1944, among the Normandy maps?

Thanks
David

[PaulJ]

...Artillerie-Regiment 191 of 91. Luftlande-Division in the spring of 1944

(emphasis added)

In the spring? Hmmm. Well, 91 LLDiv was only depl to Normandy in May (Zetterling, Normandy 1944, Winnipeg: JJ Fedorowicz, 2000, p 239), and indeed, the AOK 7 daily sitmaps that I have for May support that. 91 LLDiv does not appear on the 12 May map, but it is there for the 22 May map (see second map below). I do not have any maps between 12 and 22 May, so the div must have been depl to the Cotentin sometime in that ten day period.

Once there, it does not appear to have adjusted its disposns much, if at all -- compare the first map below with the second. A clearer picture of the depls on the eve of D-Day may be found at this link: http://web.telia.com/~u18313395/normand ... 5_6_44.jpg

Hope this helps, sorry for the delay in response.

Cheers,

[Rich]

I have now ordered rolls 1569 and 1571 in the hopes of finding July and August.

I'm afraid you will be disappointed. There are some relating to LXXXI A.K. dispositions in August-October in 1591, but little else.

[Rich]

Hi,
Have you seen a map that shows the deployment of the Artillerie-Regiment 191 of 91. Luftlande-Division in the spring of 1944, among the Normandy maps?

Will this do? Okay, sorry, I guess nevermind, I can never get an image to upload here, but I posted it to AHF a while ago, I'll see if I can dig out the link for you.

[PaulJ]

Rich wrote:

I'm afraid you will be disappointed. There are some relating to LXXXI A.K. dispositions in August-October in 1591, but little else.

Rich, you are of course correct. There is supply situation material in 1571, which casts interesting light on the situation, but nothing like the complete set of ops sitmaps for the month of June on 1570.

So ... what have you found as far as German ops sitmaps go for July and August? It would be scarcely surprising that the records become incomplete for the Falaise gap timeperiod, but what about July? What does one find in the various corps level records?

Any advice on what I should try ordering next?

Cheers,

Paul Johnston

[Rich]

Any advice on what I should try ordering next?

Cheers,

Paul Johnston

Hi Paul,

Sorry, no, AFAIK the next maps available deal with the LXXXI AK situation circa 9-10 August. I believe that the sequence of maps for July similar to those for June may have been destroyed, since they would have been microfilmed and I have never seen them.

Rich

[Abicht]

I have been working on scanning in Normandy and France 1944 maps, here is a crop of part of a captured German 1:50,000 scale map of the Battle of Caen. This map set covers 1-26 July, but not every date.

[Abicht]

Here is another one. This map crop is from a map series showing the German air effort against the Normandy beachhead. This series covers 6-20 June 1944. The blue arrows indicate German sorties made in the day, and green arrows those made at night. German losses are indicated by the symbol for a propellor with an arrow through it with a number next to it indicating the number of losses. The propeller will either be blue or green depending on the time of sortie (day or night). A small brown propeller indicates allied losses incurred during the day, and those at night by a red symbol. Also they type of German mission will be indicated (recon...mining...anti-shipping, ect.) Good stuff...I have never seen such maps published before.

[phylo_roadking]

The long broken green line enclosing the Channel Islands - is that the old pre-war international frontier line??? Were they still using a PRE-war map impression?

[Tom Houlihan]

If the topography and all is still valid, why not? Hell, they were at war. International boundaries weren't all that important anymore anyway. How many Allied units used pre-war Michelin maps post-D-Day? If it's an accurate depiction of terrain, then it's still a good map!

[Abicht]

I have seen many maps that show pre war boundaries, that were used even in the late war years. In fact many of the standard 1:300,000 maps the Germans used were actually captured Soviet maps overprinted with German names, and updates. Also many German produced topo maps were printed on the back of "native" maps. I assume this is because first the captured native maps..Polish..Russian..ect were sent to mapping units, then as they needed to print a large amount of maps, paper may have been in short supply and the map sheets were already the right size.

I digress... but yes they use what they had.