postwar threads?

[pzrmeyer2]

Since the site has expanded to include such pre-war topics related to WW2 German Military history as the Reichswehr and World War I , is it possible to open up some postwar discussions, such as the Cold War and Bundeswehr/NVA discussion forums, so long as they focus more on the military and historical aspects and not make modern political pronouncements? In my opinion, discussions on say, Wehrmacht vets in the NVA, the Berlin airlift, postwar Allied occupation, and even the Berlin Wall "complete the cycle" on German WW2 research.

[Paddy Keating]

Seconded.

PK

[Paulus II]

Very much against this.

Feldgrau is about the German Armed Forces from 1918 to 1945. The Reichswehr has fallen within the scope of the site from the beginning. The (not so recent) addition of WW I helps understand the men that were instrumental in the forming and development of the Wehrmacht since many of them fought in that war.
What happened after 1945 says nothing about the Wehrmacht itself.
Opening a section on this topic is merely providing a backdoor for bringing modern politics to this site.

[Jason Pipes]

Good points by both sides! I'm open to the suggestion but am aware of the concerns it might raise. I would guess we could simply police the folder heavily to insure that doesn't happen, those not interested don't have to read the folder, and I am in fact interested in the topic. I have a rather fair number of good books on the topic and it certainly tends to be somewhat obscure to military researchers. I'd be curious to see what others think.

[Paddy Keating]

I think it is interesting to look at the German military after 1945, both in terms of the BRD and DDR and the post-1989 BDR, because the 1933-1945 period continues to exert such influence on German military evolution. It is also interesting to look at how Germany's veterans were treated by comparison with Allied veterans. There is no need for privately-held political views to enter into such study and discussion and there is no place here for those whose participation is motivated by a Smelser or Lanzmann-like desire to tar and feather anyone who even discusses the 3rd Reich era in other than a shrilly declamatory fashion. As much as Jason and others felt the blowtorch of this form of thought-policing through that excuse for a book, I was subjected to it on primetime television and radio by Lanzmann and similar zealots because of an article about Riefenstahl...which is why I tended to react robustly to the same sort of treatment here and on other forums from people who, when pressed, display a marked ignorance of the period, proving that they are, or were, here solely to troll the site and its members. Yes, we have a "new beginning" and we're going to make the effort to make it work but let's not forget why things went down the pan in the first place. Remember Santayana and his remark about how those who forget the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them?

PK

[Paulus II]

I understand where Paddy and Jason are going and their interest in postwar German armed forces.
Personally I couldn't care less about post 1945, or even post 1942 .......1933 to the end of the "Glory Days" is where my interest lies.

Yes, we have a "new beginning" and we're going to make the effort to make it work but let's not forget why things went down the pan in the first place

Agreed, but I think it's a bit too soon after the recent troubles to open this door and a little more time to let the new start really settle in members minds may be a good thing in my opinion.
Starting a folder like that now may turn out to be like "tying the cat the bacon" as we say in Dutch. Not all could resist the temptation to take "advantage" of it.

Cheers,

Paul

[Jason Pipes]

WWII German vets served in the post-war German army and many units carried on the traditions of former Wehrmacht units. That connection is interesting and of course now we have moder German units engaged in combat operations for the first time since the end of the war. Facinating and important subjects for sure. Not sure if it has place in this forum as I don't want to go the route like some sites of having 75 different folders, but like I said the subject interests me and it is in some ways related.

[Paddy Keating]

Then how about calling it "Nach Dem Krieg" with a strapline explaining that it's a forum for discussion of 2nd and 3rd Reich vets and related topics in the BRD and DDR - and Austria - after 1945?

PK

[pzrmeyer2]

WWII German vets served in the post-war German army and many units carried on the traditions of former Wehrmacht units. That connection is interesting and of course now we have moder German units engaged in combat operations for the first time since the end of the war. Facinating and important subjects for sure. Not sure if it has place in this forum as I don't want to go the route like some sites of having 75 different folders, but like I said the subject interests me and it is in some ways related.

I also share an interest in this, especially the role of Wehrmacht vets in the development of the DDR forces and government. Many of even tohe top Politburo members served in the army, such as Willi Stoph and Wilhelm Adam. Thalmann and Ulbricht served in the WW1 Reichswehr as Hitler did. There are several interesting and obscure books on some fascinating topics here, such as Naimark's works on the Soviets in Germany, Taylor's new comprehensive book on the Berlin Wall, and others that detail the DDR's identity politics in its relationships with its neighbors West Germany and Poland, as with the state's attitudes towards vets returning from Soviet captivty, "re-settlers" ie the expellees, etc etc. It really is fascinating stuff that deserves a spot here, as I said "to complete the circle". This doesnt have to devolve into modern politcal pronouncements. We can limit the timeframe up to 1990 or just post reunification if we have to. Those with less stark bellies or the inablilty to show restraint need not participate.

[phylo_roadking]

...or an extension of the scope of the "Veterans and vets. info" section?

While definitely interesting and pertinent, that would help limit it to just WWII vets' service postwar. After all, we do have mention in many threads already of vets' service postwar in NON-DDR/BRD forces. We already have a section, there's nothing wrong in just tweaking it...

[Paddy Keating]

Just make a 1945-on section, focusing on military and political topics in Europe and any country affected by the German military from 1899 to 1945 and that should do it. Police it robustly to prevent silliness but allow robust but adult-level discussion.

PK

[Jason Pipes]

I've gone ahead and created a post-WWII German military section. This section will be watched closely as it is to be a place to discuss military related topics only and not modern politics.

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to Chairman Pipes, his august lieutenants and the community as a whole. Howdy Jason! Well sir, in light of your administrative announcement of Wednesday - January 09, 2008 - 3:12pm, old Uncle Bob was wondering if threads that were generated PRIOR to the creation of the Post World War Two German Military section of the forum would eventually be relocated into the Post World War Two German Military section of the forum? There are more than just a few such contemporary German and Austrian threads scattered across the broad expanse of the forum. Thank you in advance for entertaining my pointed inquiry. Well, that's my initial two cents or pfennigs worth on this not so unimportant topic of interest - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day down by Baghdad-By-The-Bay.

[Jason Pipes]

They will indeed be moved over, yes!