I find it hard to believe that was due soley to his real name being made available via a forum. If someone can apparently go to the lenghts of trashing someones credit and aiding in their being fired from a job, don't you think they could fairly easily find their real name if they really wanted to as well?
Still, I understand the concern, I just think it's somewhat reactionary. I've been online using my real name since 1992 and I've never once had a problem with my credit scores, job applications, being hired or fired, being stalked, or with confrontations with folks online (of which there have been many). If things like these happen there are many resources for people to use to protect themselves. The law and law enforcement are very well versed in internet crimes these days and generally work to fully assist people having problems online.
New requirement going forward re: user names on Feldgrau
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Commissar D, the Evil
- Moderator
- Posts: 4823
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:22 pm
- Location: New Jersey
As on Soldatenheim, I am constrained to remind my fellow Feldgrauians that I used my real name for years as a Mod on AHF and never suffered retaliation. I understand folks' concerns, but I think they may be exaggerated.
"Commissar D, the EviL" is as pure a Feldgrau nickname as you can find, as it originated many, many years on this Forum. I would be very unhappy to give up the nick. But, as a Moderator, I am bound to follow Jason's wishes unless I choose to separate myself from the Forum.
In fact, except for my sentimental attachment to the nickname, Jason's proposal makes sense as, since we are a legitimate forum studying a legitimate subject, there should, under those circumstances, be no need to hide our identities out of fear.
Very Best,
David C. Clarke,
Commissar D, the EviL
"Commissar D, the EviL" is as pure a Feldgrau nickname as you can find, as it originated many, many years on this Forum. I would be very unhappy to give up the nick. But, as a Moderator, I am bound to follow Jason's wishes unless I choose to separate myself from the Forum.
In fact, except for my sentimental attachment to the nickname, Jason's proposal makes sense as, since we are a legitimate forum studying a legitimate subject, there should, under those circumstances, be no need to hide our identities out of fear.
Very Best,
David C. Clarke,
Commissar D, the EviL
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
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sniper1shot
- Moderator
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:56 pm
- Location: Canada
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phylo_roadking
- Patron
- Posts: 8459
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:41 pm
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statemachine
- Contributor
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:21 pm
- Location: Earth
I would have to agree with Einsamer_Wolf.I recall the response I once received to mentioning that I studied the war.First the person questioned if I believed the holocaust actually occured.Then came the snide statement about Germans."Not all of them are babykillers,are they?''Too many people will use the info to profile people,a growing concern.If you have a paid internet connection,management knows who you are.If there are exceptions,people will assume special favors are being granted.If Paddy thinks he is going to bag Sid,I predict Sid will leave,or get an exception.
An unbreakable man
Already said this in a PM to Jason but will share my view with other members here.
In principle I think that using real names will be beneficial to the forum.
There are however some reasons why some people wouldn't want their real name easily found through Google and associated with the Wehrmacht. Not the Wehrmacht as discussed in 'Feldgrau' but the Wehrmacht, perceived by some out there, as the 'nazi-murder-holocaust-machine'.
In my specific case I don't mind if family, friends, neighbours and collegue's know about my interest. They already do. For many years now.
In my job however I am sent on projects to digitize archives. Where I appear people are afraid they will lose their job. I am seen as a threat and, to some extent, rightly so. I now I am Googled when I first start on a new project and don't need those that feel threatened by my presence to get some extra ammunition by connecting me to the nazi's. They are wrong in doing so but do it nonetheless.
Can I overcome that extra burden? Certainly!
Do I need or want that extra burden? Certainly not!
What to do?
NOT walk away from Feldgrau for starters. Feldgrau is more important to me than the preconceived thoughts of some that I only have to deal with for a couple of months.
Maybe:
Open research sections for everyone but restrict non-research sections to proven members of long and good standing.
Install the "enter the code in the box" when registering on the forum. Keeps out the bots and probably some trollsters.
Show real and full names only in the PM-system. Other members will know your name but those that don't need to know won't.
Submit a copy of your passport to the forumstaff. Behave yourself badly and they will know who you are. And, for all I care, can nail you to the wall if you are a foulmouthed troll.
Regards to all,
Paul.
In principle I think that using real names will be beneficial to the forum.
There are however some reasons why some people wouldn't want their real name easily found through Google and associated with the Wehrmacht. Not the Wehrmacht as discussed in 'Feldgrau' but the Wehrmacht, perceived by some out there, as the 'nazi-murder-holocaust-machine'.
In my specific case I don't mind if family, friends, neighbours and collegue's know about my interest. They already do. For many years now.
In my job however I am sent on projects to digitize archives. Where I appear people are afraid they will lose their job. I am seen as a threat and, to some extent, rightly so. I now I am Googled when I first start on a new project and don't need those that feel threatened by my presence to get some extra ammunition by connecting me to the nazi's. They are wrong in doing so but do it nonetheless.
Can I overcome that extra burden? Certainly!
Do I need or want that extra burden? Certainly not!
What to do?
NOT walk away from Feldgrau for starters. Feldgrau is more important to me than the preconceived thoughts of some that I only have to deal with for a couple of months.
Maybe:
Open research sections for everyone but restrict non-research sections to proven members of long and good standing.
Install the "enter the code in the box" when registering on the forum. Keeps out the bots and probably some trollsters.
Show real and full names only in the PM-system. Other members will know your name but those that don't need to know won't.
Submit a copy of your passport to the forumstaff. Behave yourself badly and they will know who you are. And, for all I care, can nail you to the wall if you are a foulmouthed troll.
Regards to all,
Paul.
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Piet Duits
- Associate
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:51 pm
- Location: Oudenbosch, Nederland
Paul,
A copy of your passport !?! That goes way too far.
With all due respect, but who knows if those copies are handled carefully? No, I don't agree with that specific part.
What to think about this:
Piet D., Oudenbosch, Nederland
or
Jason P., San Francisco, USA
or
Homer S., Springfield, USA
This is neutral, everybody has it's way.
I see it like this. I am only 32 years old. I don't have to be called Sir or Mister by fellow researchers/enthusiasts. If someone has a question, he/she can ask on an equal standard what they want to ask.
So, using the first names.
I always say that only the taxes and McDonalds have to call me Sir.
Piet D., Oudenbosch, Nederland
A copy of your passport !?! That goes way too far.
With all due respect, but who knows if those copies are handled carefully? No, I don't agree with that specific part.
What to think about this:
Piet D., Oudenbosch, Nederland
or
Jason P., San Francisco, USA
or
Homer S., Springfield, USA
This is neutral, everybody has it's way.
I see it like this. I am only 32 years old. I don't have to be called Sir or Mister by fellow researchers/enthusiasts. If someone has a question, he/she can ask on an equal standard what they want to ask.
So, using the first names.
I always say that only the taxes and McDonalds have to call me Sir.
Piet D., Oudenbosch, Nederland
Nur für den Dienstgebrauch
Piet,
About the passport, I'm so used to identify myself at every new project or every time I have some business with the government that it's become 'normal' to do so.
Though I understand your concern I do feel that it would be in trusted hands here. 'Feel' there is indeed no way to be sure.
Best regards,
Paul B., Amersfoort, Nederland.
PS: I wanted to register as Paul B. when I joined Feldgrau but that was already taken
. Made do with an old nickname with the "II" as an alternative to "B".
Excellent, for my part that covers it very well.What to think about this:
Piet D., Oudenbosch, Nederland
About the passport, I'm so used to identify myself at every new project or every time I have some business with the government that it's become 'normal' to do so.
Though I understand your concern I do feel that it would be in trusted hands here. 'Feel' there is indeed no way to be sure.
Best regards,
Paul B., Amersfoort, Nederland.
PS: I wanted to register as Paul B. when I joined Feldgrau but that was already taken
. Made do with an old nickname with the "II" as an alternative to "B".-
Tom Houlihan
- Patron
- Posts: 4301
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:05 pm
- Location: MI, USA
- Contact:
That could become an issue! That'll have to be worked out administratively. But, since I'm admin, I'm gonna be Tom1!!! Tom27 can just deal with it!Paulus II wrote:PS: I wanted to register as Paul B. when I joined Feldgrau but that was already taken
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Paddy Keating
I was an administrator on MCF at the time and I remember that Mike crossed swords with the owner and some of his friends. Mike withdrew from the website and then set up a website or webpage full of all sorts of slanderous statements about the management of MCF. While I don't condone what - allegedly - happened to him, he did rather ask for trouble, given the nature of the owner of MCF. Honts has done this sort of thing to many people. He tried it with me after I left. He's still trying it. Mind you, so did more "respectable" people, like the management of the Wehrmacht-Awards Forums and, more recently, the management of Feldpost.tv. Again, most if not all of these fellows hide behind pseudonyms. The vendetta thing can be a worry but only if you give it head space. As I said elsewhere, the "Wild West" era is drawing to a close on the internet. There are even legislative proposals to outlaw profiling job and college applicants via search engines like Google, which is very telling. Coming back to Mike, he argued with Honts & Co and then set up a website aimed at further antagonising Honts. I think it was a Google Page. If ISPs were forced to take or at least share responsibility for content, we wouldn't see so much of this nonsense. Look what happened when some French student agitators sued ISPs to stop them from making swastikas and other "hate symbols" visible to French web surfers. It seems that we can get ISPs and e-auction site to ban swastikas but we cannot stop them from allowing their customers to libel people from behind the relative safety of fake names. It's great that you want members to use real names but what will happen is that you will get members giving you real-seeming names, as with one of the worst trolls on this website and others. That's probably alright as 95% of these people are no trouble at all but in the case of the troublesome minority, what do you do? Ban them only to see them re-registering under some other credible name? That's why the credit card thing is probably the best way to go. Either that or the Moneybookers system whereby an applicant gives an address and a letter containing a verification code to be entered upon logging in is sent there by snailmail. However, this is far more labour-intensive than installing a card payment system using generic software.Potsdamerplatz wrote:There is also the real possibility of members conducting personal vendettas offsite with full knowledge of a rival poster's real name and location. This information can be used for nefarious purposes.
For example, some of you may remember "Stormtrooper" (Mike) from MCF who was mercilessly and undeservedly persecuted by some members of that forum who made his life a misery because of some personality clash over whether Star Wars re-enactment was a serious hobby. He almost lost his job, had his credit rating trashed and a whole lot of other nasty business.
I am against the idea and if it means I am prevented from posting on Feldgrau in the future then so be it.
PK
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Paddy Keating
I beg to differ. I've been swindled via eBay, harassed, stalked and so on and on but was never able to get the police interested. In one case, I paid a fellow for some goods, which he never sent.Jason Pipes wrote:The law and law enforcement are very well versed in internet crimes these days and generally work to fully assist people having problems online.
You should perhaps, as I've suggested before, go and take a look at how http://www.gmic.co.uk is run. Ask the owner about their zero tolerance policy. No personal abuse, no flaming, no feuds from outside, no offensive behaviour. It works very well. But in order for it to work, the rules have to be applied evenly and equally across the board.
There are two individuals trolling me, discreetly, in this very thread, Jason. One of them subjected you to bucketloads of abuse yesterday as he 'resigned'. Yet he is still here, despite 'leaving'. The other is careful to behave himself on this website but is responsible for all sorts of shenanigans on another website...and keeps sniping here when I am trying to make useful contributions.
Zero tolerance across the board is what is needed. Two week suspensions for a first offence, a month for a second and banishment for a third, irrespective of whether they can write articulate English on websites or have produced books through vanity publishers. We have enough authors around who behave like gentlemen so why do we need to tolerate unbecoming conduct from others? Well, to be brutally frank, most of the serious authors who used to participate no longer do so because of the idiot factor. Where are people like Yerger, Riksmanspoel, Lumsden, Nasse, Queen, Mason and the others?
PK
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philippe_jehl
- Supporter
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:16 am
- Location: Memphis, USA
The preferable way would be a sort of verification done during the account setup but the information to be known only by the forum management rather than all of the members. A confirmation email when creating an account that is sent only to an address that is from an account that is not a free non verifiable (yahoo, g-mail etc) but rather from an ISP that requires paid subscription and hold legal name etc of the subscriber. You can also add IP tracking to all posters, like many similar forums do.
As for employers googling names well that has become part of the employment procedure the HR department has done along with background and drug checks, and also a credit check. So having names publically shown to all , even non-members could pose some issues to those applying for positions that do check web activity as part of their screening. Many of our posts can easily be taken out of context and misunderstood by others. Even my wife quickly questioned my access to this site due to the pictures on top of the forum. Though she knows me very well she thought I had secretly had an interest in Nazi ideology and was a white supremist or something in that line. I explained to her what the forum was and let her read my posts so as to assure her she had nothing to worry about. So if someone that actually knows me and lives with me daily and has known me for many years get the wrong impression just by the front page of a forum what do you think prospective employers are going to think, they are not going to ask you they are just going to move on to the next candidate. Even if the forum is locked to only members being able to view posts, the information is still viable via cached google pages as well as other search services. I can find all my post on here as well as other places by putting in my name in the search. I have nothing to hide but if I was actively searching for a job I would mask my internet activities (there are ways to do that). I am in the IT field so all my bosses and co-workers are pretty much savvy in doing web searches and data mining on individuals (we do it for our HR). so that is my .02 cents on the subject
As for employers googling names well that has become part of the employment procedure the HR department has done along with background and drug checks, and also a credit check. So having names publically shown to all , even non-members could pose some issues to those applying for positions that do check web activity as part of their screening. Many of our posts can easily be taken out of context and misunderstood by others. Even my wife quickly questioned my access to this site due to the pictures on top of the forum. Though she knows me very well she thought I had secretly had an interest in Nazi ideology and was a white supremist or something in that line. I explained to her what the forum was and let her read my posts so as to assure her she had nothing to worry about. So if someone that actually knows me and lives with me daily and has known me for many years get the wrong impression just by the front page of a forum what do you think prospective employers are going to think, they are not going to ask you they are just going to move on to the next candidate. Even if the forum is locked to only members being able to view posts, the information is still viable via cached google pages as well as other search services. I can find all my post on here as well as other places by putting in my name in the search. I have nothing to hide but if I was actively searching for a job I would mask my internet activities (there are ways to do that). I am in the IT field so all my bosses and co-workers are pretty much savvy in doing web searches and data mining on individuals (we do it for our HR). so that is my .02 cents on the subject
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Einsamer_Wolf
- Banned
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:45 pm
- Location: New York, NY
Snooping about people on the web does not occur only during the hiring process, but can happen anytime. Just as I would never display a model of Panther, Tiger, or other Panzer in my office (with or without an air recognition panel), I do not want colleagues, business contacts to know abouy my interest.
Do not underestimate the gravity of this concern. A former collelague of mine was once a member of Rob Zombie (somehat briefly). It did not take long for everyone to find out about that. Of course, another poster has warned of the dangers of potential adversaries causing problems.
Again, I reiterate the taboo associated with this. Marc C. Jaeger has suggested that his perennial bachelorhood is attributed to his area of expertise.
Do not underestimate the gravity of this concern. A former collelague of mine was once a member of Rob Zombie (somehat briefly). It did not take long for everyone to find out about that. Of course, another poster has warned of the dangers of potential adversaries causing problems.
Again, I reiterate the taboo associated with this. Marc C. Jaeger has suggested that his perennial bachelorhood is attributed to his area of expertise.
Mögen die Flammen unserer Begeisterung niemals zum Erlöschen kommen.
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Piet Duits
- Associate
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:51 pm
- Location: Oudenbosch, Nederland
What a rediculous political correctness !
If The Powers That Be starts to love the color grey, should everybody love grey too?
If this is true what you write -and I have no reason to think otherwise- then you are accompanied with the shortest minded people you can ever find. What are you, sheep? Has George Orwell's 1984 become a reality where you live? Then YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THERE !!!
Regarding the single-issue. Well, even Trekkies can get a girl, so that's no excuse.
Sorry, but I consider this to be complete nonsense.
What's wrong with my proposed way: Piet D. from Oudenbosch, The Netherlands.
If I look at the white pages of Oudenbosch, part of Halderberge - a community with 29.500 people - then there's no way in telling what my family name is. So, if you want to hide, you can hide behind that.
I have never been ashamed of who I am, what I am and what my hobbies are. You shouldn't either.
boy o boy, I can't believe this. Suppose you like kinky sex, or even worse, you watch As The World Turns in your FREE TIME. Boy, watch out as it can get you fired. If this hobby can get you fired, TRY ME ! Then people with a profession like Dave has are handy
Piet D.
If The Powers That Be starts to love the color grey, should everybody love grey too?
If this is true what you write -and I have no reason to think otherwise- then you are accompanied with the shortest minded people you can ever find. What are you, sheep? Has George Orwell's 1984 become a reality where you live? Then YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THERE !!!
Regarding the single-issue. Well, even Trekkies can get a girl, so that's no excuse.
Sorry, but I consider this to be complete nonsense.
What's wrong with my proposed way: Piet D. from Oudenbosch, The Netherlands.
If I look at the white pages of Oudenbosch, part of Halderberge - a community with 29.500 people - then there's no way in telling what my family name is. So, if you want to hide, you can hide behind that.
I have never been ashamed of who I am, what I am and what my hobbies are. You shouldn't either.
boy o boy, I can't believe this. Suppose you like kinky sex, or even worse, you watch As The World Turns in your FREE TIME. Boy, watch out as it can get you fired. If this hobby can get you fired, TRY ME ! Then people with a profession like Dave has are handy
Piet D.
Nur für den Dienstgebrauch