Jumping on the Human Rights PC gravy train.statemachine wrote:Britain should be apologising for their much more recent actions in the 50's in Kenya.Some Kenyans are attempting to have a class action suit heard,and are still meeting resistance.
Part of the deal to obtain their independance was indeed to agree to an amnesty for all the crimes committed against the Kenyan people.sid guttridge wrote:Hi statemachine,
Technically all the Mau-Mau baggage was signed away at independence and falls within the jurisdiction of the successor Kenyan Government.
Has the Kenyan Government pursued any internal cases against either African security force members or Mau-Mau members?
If it has, then I can see no objection to pursuing implicated Britons as well.
There is a major problem in that a recent book (entitled something like "Britain's Gulag") closes with vague and unsubstantiated allegations that the Mau-Mau death toll was as high as 100,000. This has heightened the public profile of the issue.
Another complicating factor was that there were two recent court cases in which Kenyan women alleged rape by British forces on exercise and other Kenyans alleged injury from unexploded ordinance after exercises were over. These were provoked by a couple of compensation hand outs that drew attention to HMG as a milch-cow and resulted in hundreds of apparently false claims.
Cheers,
Sid.
The British wash their hands with the finest soap
Christ what a informative statement. Sorce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_ElkinsCriticism of Elkins' work
Elkins' work was criticized by historian Lawrence James in The Sunday Times as being a one-sided account of the Mau Mau Uprising. In an article in The Guardian, James, in turn, was criticized for "whitewashing the history of the British empire".[1]
Nicholas Best, acknowledging that "there can be no excuse for what happened" in Kenya, questioned Elkins' detention and casualty figures as ludicrous and accused Elkins of being selective in her sources[2].
Richard Dowden wrote a critical review of Elkins' book in The Guardian[3]. James Mitchell, in a highly critical review of the book, said 'I shudder for those of her students who expect academic rigour: Elkins doesn't let facts stand in the way of a good rant.'[4]
David Elstein has also noted severe shortcomings in Elkins' methodology and conclusions. Elstein contends that her casualty figures are derived from an idiosyncratic reading of census figures and a tendentious interpretation of the fortified village scheme.
The BBC documentary Kenya: White Terror was based on Elkins'controversial research into the Mau Mau. It aired on Sunday 17 November 2002 on BBC Two at 1915 GMT and subsequently on BBC World. As a result of complaints made against this documentary, Ofcom (the British broadcasting watchdog) ruled that the programme had been partially unfair to Terrence Gavaghan, whom Elkins accuses of brutality.
Elkins Harvard colleague Niall Ferguson praised Elkins for her research which he described as painstaking however described her book as a sensationalist account of the rebellion.[5]
In 2007, the demographer John Blacker writing in African Affairs demonstrated in detail that Elkins' estimates of casualties were grossly over estimated. [6]
IIRC I contributed to a thread on this and other "British Concentration camps" on AHF about 8 weeks ago. There are actually more holes than a collander in her argument. Its also worth looking at the rest of her outputElkins book is good, but many historians etc have pulled her up on her actual figures and rather agenda driven narrative.
All peoples and nations have had there moments of cruelty, madness and sheer brutality. I dont seek to keep the UK of that list nations, but I take point over generalisations, stereotyping and cheap shots taken at any nation, be that UK, USA, Germany, China, USSR, Japan etc etc, which is what your wording and context was doing.statemachine wrote:Andy H wrote:Elkins book is good, but many historians etc have pulled her up on her actual figures and rather agenda driven narrative.
Since the British destroyed so many files,Andy,which you know they are so fond of,what evidence are these other historians citing?Even if these figures were off by a factor of ten,you have to admit,it was a vey dark period for the British.Other,less refined peoples did these kinds of things.Not Brits.
This is a wise statement.All peoples and nations have had there moments of cruelty, madness and sheer brutality. I don't seek to keep the UK off that list nations, but I take point over generalizations, stereotyping and cheap shots taken at any nation, be that UK, USA, Germany, China, USSR, Japan etc etc, which is what your wording and context was doing.
Andy H wrote:statemachine wrote:All peoples and nations have had there moments of cruelty, madness and sheer brutality. I dont seek to keep the UK of that list nations, but I take point over generalisations, stereotyping and cheap shots taken at any nation, be that UK, USA, Germany, China, USSR, Japan etc etc, which is what your wording and context was doing.Andy H wrote:Elkins book is good, but many historians etc have pulled her up on her actual figures and rather agenda driven narrative.
Since the British destroyed so many files,Andy,which you know they are so fond of,what evidence are these other historians citing?Even if these figures were off by a factor of ten,you have to admit,it was a vey dark period for the British.Other,less refined peoples did these kinds of things.Not Brits.
Regards
