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21. Panzer-Division Ermittlung des Fehl an Rader-Kfz 31.12.4

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:37 am
by QuietGargoyle
I've scanned in a 4-page hand-written summary and uploaded them to my shared Rogers photo album.

This appears to have been compiled by some nameless staff officer in the closing days of 1941. What is fascinating is the exacting breakdown of all vehicles present (Ist) contrasted with their unit's theoretical establishment (Soll). Notes in the Bemerkungen column attempt to explain discrepancies, but they are hard for me to read! Any suggestions on their content?

For example, there are 42 "s.gl.Pkw.Kfz.81" listed for II./S.R. 104, with a note that appears to read "Alle mit Taxxxxx Rxxxxxxx" :? Were these vehicles Kfz 81 Leichter Flak-Kraftwagen (s.E.Pkw.), eg a Horch light AA vehicle?

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:12 pm
by Leo Niehorster
How about posting a link?
Possibly someone could help you then...
:wink:

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:29 am
by Sepp
Leo,

the phrase 'Rogers photo album' in the first message is the link. But the images there are of poor quality and almost unreadable...

Link

Sepp

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:26 am
by QuietGargoyle
The images in this link were created from printed pages that I'd made from a microfilm reader 25 years ago. Their backgrounds are 'dark' but the actual text is certainly readable. I recently scanned them at 300dpi, and tested how these scans look through Microsoft's Photo Editor: they are practically as good as the 'originals'. Choose 'download' after viewing the gallery to get the full image and then change the magnification to look closely at the text.

The difficulty I have in reading them is of interpreting the handwriting scribbles....

If anyone can suggest different settings to try for the scans I'd be happy to load them in again!

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:39 am
by Paulus II
Hi QuietGargoyle,

Though German is not my native language I speak it reasonably well so I'll have a go. Any German (or Austrian) will probably do a better job so feel free to correct me!
The vehicle is described as schwere gelaende PKW which makes me think that it is not the Horch. That was usually described as s. Einheits PKW as you mentioned.
The summary deals with the 'Fehl' (probably missing or maybe defect/breakdown) of the wheeled vehicles. The note in the top righthand corner mentions that it is a copy made to the attention of the general.
Comparing the Ist/Soll numbers there were quite a few vehicles missing (specially trucks) while the Kfz. 81 weren't supposed to be there at all.
Maybe they are fieldconversions of various trucks for protection against the RAF thus making those trucks Kfz. 81's.
The note at the end of the line is indeed hard to read but as far as I can make out it reads: Alle mit schweren (all with heavy)..... and then probably Rahmenbruecken. I gather that is a term usually reserved for bridges but I've seen it on occasion to be a frame.
So this could mean that the vehicles were provided with a heavy frame and that could be used as a fieldmodification to mount 20mm Flak-guns on the trucks.
I could be far off the mark with this explanation but it seems reasonable to me.

Cheers, Paul

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:16 pm
by QuietGargoyle
Thanks Paulus!

I've created an Excel Spreadsheet from these documents which I'd b e happy to share with anyone: the Rogers photo share site I'm using will only accept JPEG files. (Send me a PM and I'll email it).

Your explanation sounds perfectly reasonable: both remarks could be saying the same thing about the same vehicles. Are all Kfz 81 AA vehicles? It seems these occupy a high proportion of the remaining vehicles of both battalions since M.G.-Btl 8 has 20 of 49 of them and II. S.R. 104 has laid its hands on 42, even though it has 0 of 88 Kfz 70 (for example).

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:06 pm
by QuietGargoyle
Glory be! I've figured out how to use my free Rogers geocities webspace. I've uploaded to it my 21-Panzer-Ermittlung.xls spreadsheet!

I'd appreciate any corrections/changes. By the way, I noted that the unnamed staff officer who compiled this made an addition error in the sum row for one column (can anyone find out which one?) :wink:

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:03 am
by Leo Niehorster
Nice chart.

Alle beute LKW (all are captured ["booty"] trucks)
Alle mit schweren Rahmenbrüche (all with badly cracked chassis)
40% in Reparatur, Rest überholungsbedurftig (40% under repair, the rest need to be overhauled)

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:16 pm
by Paulus II
Hi Leo,

Are you sure about the Rahmenbruchen?
This possibility had entered my mind but I discarded it because of the Soll/Ist numbers as I mentioned in my previous post.
I certainly don't doubt your superior knowledge of the German language but the combination of many missing trucks, many non standard Kfz. 81's and then all of those with a badly cracked chassis. Somehow it doesn't sound logical to me.
I must admit however that it looks more like an 'h' than a 'k'.

Cheers, Paul

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:22 am
by Sepp
@Paulus II

So what do you think are 'Rahmenbrücken'? In German, this is an architectural term describing a type of (road)bridges ('frame bridge').

Sepp

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:54 am
by Paulus II
Hi Sepp,
I gather that is a term usually reserved for bridges but I've seen it on occasion to be a frame.[
A friend mine who studied German at the university assured that this was the case. I looked around the internet and found many references to bridges and a few where it was just a frame, mostly on sites somehow related to vehicles.

Paul

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:13 pm
by Sepp
Paul,

but why should a constructive detail be mentioned in an inventory? Such information makes no sense in this context. However, knowing that vehicles are physically existant, but practically unusable due to mechanical problems or defects is pretty important.

Sorry, it is 'Rahmenbrüche', no matter what your academic sources say.

Sepp

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:57 am
by Paulus II
Hi Sepp,

Sorry to react so late but I was in Hospital for a short while and unable to connect to the forum. Doing fine now.
OK. You are right and have convinced me of that. Sometimes my imagination tends to gallop off into the Wild Blue Yonder and I never give up without at least short discussion but after some further consideration your point can only be true.

Cheers Paul