I am trying to compile a list of the top Tiger I commanders by number of kills. I am trying to list their total number of kills even if they did not all occur in a Tiger I. The list below is what I have come up with so far. It was taken from another post on another forum but I was not sure which exactly were in Tiger I's. I would be very grateful for any assistance with this list....corrections or additions.
Thanks,
Alan Hamby
Kurt Knispel 168 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
Otto Carius 150+ kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502
Johannes (Hans) Bolter 139+ kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502
Michael Wittman 138 kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
Paul Egger 113 kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 102
Arno Giesen 111 kills 8./SS-Panzerregiment 2
Heinz Rohndorf 106 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
Heinz Gartner 103 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
Karl Koener 100+ kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
Albert Kerscher 100+ kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502
Balthazar (Bobby) Woll 100+ kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
Helmut Wendorff 84 kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
Will Fey 80+ kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 102
Eric Litztke 76 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 509
Wilhelm Knauth 68 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 505
Karl Bromann 66 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
Konrad Weinert 59 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503
Karl Heinz Warmbrunn 57 kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
Heinz Kling 51 kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
Heinz Kramer 50+ kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502
Alfredo Carpaneto 50+ kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502
Oberleutnant Mausberg 50+ kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 505
Johann Muller 50 kills schwere Panzer-Abteilung 502
Jurgen Brandt 47 kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
Franz Staudegger 22+ kills schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101
Top Tiger I commanders by # of kills?
Moderator: Tom Houlihan
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You can add at Wilhelm Knauth a bit, Alan
Knauth-Thread on AHF
Jan-Hendrik
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See:22.10.1944 Bestätigung des 101. Panzerabschusses
Knauth-Thread on AHF
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Jan-Hendrik
Hello Jan-Hendrik!
Yes I have already corrected his score and added his picture. Like you I was also contacted by Dr.Klaus-Wilhelm Knauth. He is a very nice fellow and I was honored to get to correspond with him.
I also added the picture of Rondorf that you sent me a while back.
Now if I could only find pictures of Walter Schroif and Arno Giesen and Konrad Weinert.
Regards
- Alan
Yes I have already corrected his score and added his picture. Like you I was also contacted by Dr.Klaus-Wilhelm Knauth. He is a very nice fellow and I was honored to get to correspond with him.
I also added the picture of Rondorf that you sent me a while back.
Now if I could only find pictures of Walter Schroif and Arno Giesen and Konrad Weinert.
Regards
- Alan
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I think it is a case of German propaganda inflating the whole 'Ace' system.
In The East in 1943 the Germans reduced their own kill claims by 33% before collating them for intelligence on Russian losses.
In 1944-45 this was increased to a 50% reduction.
Kill claims for Normandy are also known to be inflated.
Now I never see this taken into account when these 'kills' are tabulated.
It stands to reason then that the 'list of kills' is greatly in excess of reality.
No one would dream of posting the raw claims of Allied tankers because they understand the overclaim problem. It seems there is no such caution over German claims.
In The East in 1943 the Germans reduced their own kill claims by 33% before collating them for intelligence on Russian losses.
In 1944-45 this was increased to a 50% reduction.
Kill claims for Normandy are also known to be inflated.
Now I never see this taken into account when these 'kills' are tabulated.
It stands to reason then that the 'list of kills' is greatly in excess of reality.
No one would dream of posting the raw claims of Allied tankers because they understand the overclaim problem. It seems there is no such caution over German claims.
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Mike, it is a simple mistake of definition...
a "kill" for a tanker is, even in modern Bundeswehr not what you would take as "write-off", but as "mission kill" in modern terms.
A "kill" (stupid term indeed), or better "Abschuß" was counted when the enemy tank got immobile or abandonded on the battle field, nothing more.
Jan-Hendrik
a "kill" for a tanker is, even in modern Bundeswehr not what you would take as "write-off", but as "mission kill" in modern terms.
A "kill" (stupid term indeed), or better "Abschuß" was counted when the enemy tank got immobile or abandonded on the battle field, nothing more.
Jan-Hendrik
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That of course would mean Allied 'kills' should be increased significantly.
One example would be several hundred Tiger 'kills' in Normandy alone.
Another would have 503 with 30+ Tigers 'killed' on 18/7/44.
I know what you are saying but the majority of people repeating these high claims do not and simply believe thay are all confirmed kills.
One example would be several hundred Tiger 'kills' in Normandy alone.
Another would have 503 with 30+ Tigers 'killed' on 18/7/44.
I know what you are saying but the majority of people repeating these high claims do not and simply believe thay are all confirmed kills.
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Sorry, I can just tell it from the tanker's view, not from the point of postwar writers who thought that they "knew" something
And that's exactly why the term "kill" disturbs me as it simply does not fit as translation for german "Abschuß" .
I think most ones simply thought they could transfer the Luftwaffe Abschuß recognition system 1:1 to the tankers.
Jan-Hendrik
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And that's exactly why the term "kill" disturbs me as it simply does not fit as translation for german "Abschuß" .
I think most ones simply thought they could transfer the Luftwaffe Abschuß recognition system 1:1 to the tankers.
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Jan-Hendrik
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