Induction and Basic Training

[Helmut]

Servus,
Does anyone have any information on how a typical young German would have received his induction notification, the induction process and basic training. Did the Germans have a basic training and an Advanced Individual training, in which they would receive training in their respective specialty( Infantry, Armor, Supply etc).

Thank you in advance for your help

Regards,

Helmut

[Christoph Awender]

Hello!

The individual will get a letter from the Wehrersatzkommando of his Wehrkreis.
With this letter he is ordered to do a health check at the local military authority.
After this he received a letter where he is ordered to report at his unit he was chosen for at a certain time, date and place.

Every soldier received the normal basic training like everyone does. This was usually 4 weeks depending on the time in the war.
This was the basic training like marching, weapon drills, running, crawling, sports, uniform drills, exercising etc...
After that the soldier would receive the weapon/position/unit specific training like driver, messenger, clerk, machinegunner, cook etc...
Within tzhis training they had group tactical, platoon tactical training which should prepare the soldiers to work together in the section, group, platoon and company.

hope this helps a little bit,
Christoph

[Joe Cleere]

Basic training in the German Army lasted for sixteen weeks.

[Christoph Awender]

Basic training in the German Army lasted for sixteen weeks.

16 weeks for the basic training? What is your source for that?
You think that in the war they trained their recruits 16 weeks basic training.
In 1935 it was 8-12 weeks (Grundausbildung) which was cut to 4/5 weeks in late 1941.
According to documents and manuals I have in my collection the basic training (Grundausbildung) in 1943 was 4-5 weeks with unit/wepaon specific (Verbandsausbilung) training of 4 to 6 weeks depending on the position.
The overall training was cut down to two weeks in late 1944 and to a few days in 1945.

\Christoph

[Joe Cleere]

I was going by German Infantryman, 1933-1940 by David Westwood. Its an Osprey publication. Also Martin Van Crevald's Fighting Power.

Its hard for me to believe that basic training would last for only 4-5 weeks.
That is way too short. When I was in the Marine Corps, Boot Camp lasted eleven weeks. U.S. Army basic training in World War II was thirteen weeks with an additional four weeks of specialization training.

It takes time to turn out a competent soldier who can survive on the battlefield. Usually, German soldiers went through sixteen weeks of basic, and then two months training with their unit at the platoon, company, and battalion level. As the war progressed, this training was cut, especially after Himmler took over the replacement army after the July 20, 1944 assassination attempt. He cut it to eight weeks, which is barely adequate.

More than likely what you are seeing is basic training broken down into phases. Phase I would last four weeks, Phase II another four weeks,
Phase III etc. Sending troops out to combat with only four weeks training is suicidal. A unit made up of such troops would dissolve almost immediately in combat because four weeks is not enough time to build up unit cohesion to a level where the troops will stick together under fire.

I recall that on the Feldgrau website there is a link to a story from a former Panzer Grenadier who fought in one of the makeshift Panzer Brigades in the late summer of 1944. They were given twelve weeks of training before being sent into combat.

[Gebirgsjaeger]

Joe,

I guess you should keep in mind that time was running out during the war for Germany and that replacements were badly needed so basic training was extremely shortened. There are several sources that say that after a recruit arrived at the division he was finally assigned to that they would do some "on the scene" training there as well if time allowed to.

Just keep in mind that basic training in the USMC and the US Army during the peak years of the Vietnam war was just about 6 weeks.

[Joe Cleere]

Cutting the training time during the Vietnam War down to six to eight weeks was a contributing factor in the decline of morale and unit cohesion that took place among U.S. units.

I realize that training time was cut in the German military all the way down to just a few weeks in late 1944-45. They had no choice. In Heinz Gunther Guderian's From Normandy to the Ruhr, he relates how lucky the division was to have two replacement and training battalions, where they could make up the deficiencies in training of the newly arrived replacements. This became standard practice in divisions that were lucky enough to still have their replacement battalions.

[Christoph Awender]

Hello Joe!

You answer our discrepancy yourself. The basic training was drastically reduced during the war. And if possible the training was completed at the divisional replacement units if available.
You must also consider that no unit was completely formed with new recruits. You always have a core of experienced soldiers which have to "care" for the "Grünschnäbel".
If a recruit is finished his training at his home garrison they were sent to various units to fill the gaps. it is clear that after a few weeks the new soldier is not totally "fit" as he could be.
But also don´t forget the time he had to spend in the HJ and RAD before.

And I have to say again that 16 weeks is absolutely not correct! I don´t know which source the book you quote used. Of course motorized units etc.. have a longer training effort. But we speak of the infantry soldier...

Just two examples: Herbert Maeger a LAH veteran had 10 weeks from entering the barracks to the eastfront as machinegunner. He himself says the training was inadequate and had nothing to do with the "real" life on the battlefield. You can read this in his book: "Verlohrene Ehre Verratene Treue".
The second example I have in my hands at the moment is the training schedule of the second husband of my grandmother. His training as mortar Munitionsschütze was from Monday 6.Dezember 43 to Thursday 3.Februar 1944. Then his unit had to be "frontverwendungsfähig" and had to go off to the eastfront.

\Christoph

[Nibelung]

His training as mortar Munitionsschütze was from Monday 6.Dezember 43 to Thursday 3.Februar 1944. Then his unit had to be "frontverwendungsfähig" and had to go off to the eastfront.

That's still 3 months time, not 4 weeks.

best,
Nibelung

[Gebirgsjaeger]

Nibelung,

thats true but just keep in mind that within this time-span the guy had to go thru basic training AND specialized training (the mortar part). And he may just have been the munitionsschütze but I am sure that he had to learn the trade of his comrades as well (richtschütze/ladeschütze). I have been a mortar squad leader for nearly two years and let me tell you it ain´t at all as easy as it looks like... not even today.

So if he had 6 weeks of basic and 6 weeks of specialized this to me looks pretty inadequate. I didn´t feel myself prepared to go to war after three month of mortar training.

[Christoph Awender]

His training as mortar Munitionsschütze was from Monday 6.Dezember 43 to Thursday 3.Februar 1944. Then his unit had to be "frontverwendungsfähig" and had to go off to the eastfront.

That's still 3 months time, not 4 weeks.

best,
Nibelung

Nibelung the training consisted of basic military training and the weapon/unit specific training. Read my post above again.... 4 weeks basic training THEN weapon/position/unit specific training.
If you doubt all and everything I say it would be the minimum to properly read what I write.

\Christoph

[Helmut]

Servus,
Thank you all for the info and for the lively exchange of ideas.

I have a few further questions.

Was basic training conducted at a "training center" or at the unit. What is the role of the Feldersatz Battalion and the Ausbildung und Ersatz Battalion? Are these the same thing?

Again, thank you in advance for all your help.

Regards,

Helmut

[Nibelung]

If you doubt all and everything I say it would be the minimum to properly read what I write.

I didn't doubt you, i know you have a much much bigger knowledge than I do, so consider it as my ignorrance.

best,
Nibelung

[stab131]

Look at this url, starting on page 54, to see what the US Army in March of 45 thought of Germany Army conscription and basic training.

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/cgi-bin/us ... docnum=351

Remember this information is from intelligence sources and may and probably does contain errors. Also remember that the ideal program of instruction will get tossed out the window when all hell breaks loose.

Today's US Army has peacetime and wartime program of instruction for use in total mobilization. Tasks are eliminated and expected to be taught as on the job training (OJT).

So while 4 weeks is not much time to train a recruit on all the skills needed, it is sufficient to prepare him to shoot, move and communicate.

Also RAD training was paramilitary, so the emphasis on physical conditioning and close order drill could be eliminated, allowing for concentration on the minimum infantry skills needed.

Even in peacetime the Heer for branches other than infantry the Heer only spent 21 days on infantry training (see Knapp's Soldat). So we can infer that roughly three weeks was the minimum infantry training needed, then four weeks sounds right.

The veteran soldiers could train the new guys more effectively than the schoolhouse.

Where is it better to learn how to destroy a Russian tank, in the classroom or barracks, or in the filed listening to a vet who has three tank destruction badges on his sleeve, the actual way versus the school solution.

If this training was so poor how did the Germans do so well during the Battle of the Bulge? Logistics is what hurt them, not lack of individual infantry fighting skills. If their skills were so poor why did it take the Allies 11 months to end the war after invading the continent?

No, even with just a few weeks of training the German soldier did ok. I wouldn't want to take a company into combat with only that much training, but I'd integrate soldiers with that much training into a veteran unit, pairing them up with a vet and they'd do ok.

[Christoph Awender]

If you doubt all and everything I say it would be the minimum to properly read what I write.

I didn't doubt you, i know you have a much much bigger knowledge than I do, so consider it as my ignorrance.

best,
Nibelung

Nibelung, No problem I am a little soft skinned recently. :-)

Stab131, thanks for the link. It is extremely interesting! I will definately look through it when I have time.

\Christoph