NSDAP membership in relation to SS- membership

[Paddy Keating]

It is too easy to blame NSDAP recruits of the late 1920s and early 1930s from today's perspective. You would probably have joined up at the time. I know I would. At the time, the NSDAP offered the only clearly presented alternative, from the working man's viewpoint, to the problems preventing German recovery. There are some parallels between the NSDAP position in 1931 and those of the BNP in Britain and the FN in France, who have both woken up to the vacuum left by 'evolving' labour parties and are now adopting socialist policies to woo disaffected working class and unemployed people. However, the only thing that keeps me from supporting such parties is their indiscriminate, unfocused racism, almost always rooted in skin colours. I rather suspect that I am far from alone in feeling this way. What we need is a modern NS-style but Pan-European movement, with black and brown faces in the ranks alongside whites. But any potential NS leader who stands up and proclaims this from the proverbial soapbox will be murdered by the powers-that-be, just as they murder anyone who might pose a real challenge to their status quo.

PK

[sid guttridge]

Hi Paddy,

Leaving my non-team player personality aside, yup, I or any number of us might have joined the NSDAP (or the Communists, etc.) in the 1920s, provided we shared the prejudices of the times. Given that most of us are not free thinkers, we are quite likely to have shared the prejudices of the times and to have joined, or at least tacitly supported, the NSDAP, particularly in the mid 1930s. While there is no credit for being wrong, there is no particular discredit for being wrong for genuine reasons such as ignorance or misplaced good faith. It depends on the individual's motivation.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Paddy Keating]

Prejudices? I think you mean bigotries, don't you? There is a difference. One is based on negative presumption while the other is rooted in negative experience.

PK

[sid guttridge]

Hi Paddy,

No. I mean prejudices.

Secondly, having consulted three dictionaries, I can't find any reference to bigotry being necessarily related to negative experience. Where do you get this definition from?

Cheers,

Sid.

[Michael Miller / ABR]

Many joined because they were prejudiced or bigoted in alignment with the Party line, but the vast majority joined after 1933 when nonmembership had become counterproductive in most respects. With the nazification of all government agencies, private industry, social welfare organizations, and every other kind of association, I imagine the chap who didn't have a membership card would be viewed with suspicion and likely find it hard to succeed in any field (except the Wehrmacht, members of which were- with a few exceptions- barred from membership in any political party until the aftermath of 20. July 1944).

Best wishes,
~ Mike

[phylo_roadking]

were prejudiced or bigoted in alignment

All (just quoting yours, Michael, only 'cos it has both in a nice short space), I'm not sure either term is correct....in the 1930s. To the people who joined it would have been a perfectly normal subjective decision. Perfectly normal to them and to the time. We shouldn't make objective retro-fitting judgements just because we "know" better...this isn't a "judgement" thread, just a simple Q-and-A one.

[mightythor99]

one other thing to remember, is what you see on tv,...ie, the history channel, etc, they say things like, "everyone was required to join the hitler youth",.......etc.
while it was more like, strongly suggested,......about 50 times more then people today try to get their son in the boy scouts, etc,...........it goes from region to region, as to what actually happened. my mother is german, and, like every girl of age, she wanted to be in the BDM, or german women's/girls equivelant. her parents were not in favor of it, and, while they did end up letting her join, she wore a uniform that was made by her mother, vs. the "party store bought" one,...........and, they refused to pay the dues for her, so she didnt make it in there very long. i think she said she was a member for something like 6 months, and ended up being kicked out for not paying the dues. she was 13 or 14 years old, didnt have a job, and parents controlled $$ pretty closely, so she had no way of paying it on her own, so she got booted out. was she persecuted for not being a member, or booted out? na, she says no. maybe there were a few teachers that were dissapointed, but she didnt have any problems from anywhere else. she ended up being a telephone operator during the war, and helped out in the german red cross.
she's still kickin', so i guess she came out of it alright.
she was from the rheinland, near koln, i am sure that "region" had a lot to do with how bad you were picked on, if you dropped out, or quit.........if you were from an area where all the kids were in, and you were not.......could be pretty bad, they always play it up on the history channel how the kids were nearly beaten to death for quiting, etc. could be true, but not everywhere.
something else that comes into play here, in what you are wondering about,.............i heard a statistic that 90+% of all waffen SS men (who were volenteer only) all came from the little towns and bergs,...........not from the large cities. they wanted the hard working, not as smart, farmer type, vs. the big city slickers................it's a lot easier to tell a farmer to take that hill, and we are gonna lose 30% of the troops, then the city guys............. does that make any sense, or is my figure squewed?

[sid guttridge]

Hi Mighty Thor,

Membership of the Hitler Youth really did become compulsory in the late 1930s. However, whether it was universally totally enforced is another matter. There were incidents during the later war years in some major cities of youths attacking Hitler Youths. There was definitely an independent youth culture outside the Hitler Youth that was not necessarily politically motivated but rebellious against imposed authority in the normal way.

Cheers,

Sid

[mightythor99]

she was not part of any kind of sub culture, against the hitler youth or anything like that. she was just a girl, who wanted to be a member, but didnt have the money, little as it was, for the membership dues, etc. we have talked about it multiple times. her family was not "typical" for the nazi regime.
her father was a postal inspector, and was a golden wound badge winner, from fleury, which is a tiny french town, a few miles from verdun, (concidered part of the battle of verdun), which changed hands back and forth from the french during the battle of verdun, 5+ times. he won the iron cross 1st and second class. and was disabled during that battle, losing a leg, and an eye from a french grenade while playing hot potato.
anyway, he was a postal inspector, and was very active in the kaufhausser bund from his city, duren, which is near aachen/koln. he was a social democrat, and, when hitler came into power, he stayed a strong supporter of them, which caused him lots of problems at work. he was picked up by the SS several times, and taken to jail, but the other kaufhausser bund guys would come and protest, and he was let out of jail then. from 1933, through his death in dec. '44, he did not get any "promotions" at work, due to the politics of the game, but in the '50's, 7+ years after his death, he was promoted, and his widow was given "backpay".
anyway, my mother wanted to be in it with her other classmates, but it wasnt supported by her family. hard to say what would have happened to him, had he not been an e.k.1 winner, and 100% disabled........many social democrats went to the concentration camps.
will try not to ramble so much..................sorry about that guys. just try to add as much info as i can, to help explain whatever i'm trying to explain.

[mightythor99]

and kaufhausserbund info is available??

[sid guttridge]

Hi MT99,

Have you looked at:

http://bdmhistory.com

Cheers,

Sid

[mightythor99]

will read through it. passed it along to my mom too, she'll probably read though it too, might even write her story for them. hard to get her motivated on telling about that time, most of her friends were killed during the bombing, her family lost everything, except a few dishes, somehow they didnt get crushed when the houses collapsed. she walked a small cart of stuff she picked out of the rubble to a cousin, who was completely untouched during the war, and that person took her "valuables", but wouldnt even let her sleep in the house that night, she had to sleep in the barn. then, a year or so later, when she went to get the stuff back from them, they wouldnt let her in the house, and told her that everything got ruined, due to a water leak in the house, but she could see one of her mother's table clothes on their table in the room, so she knew they were lying. the war is very sad times for her. i guess that is one thing that we dont really ever consider, when we think about all the bs that we all think about. how tradgic it all really is.
well, talk to you later, and thanks for the website!

[Rolf Steiner]

Hi Sid

I think a book's recently been published on the broader theme of youth culture but I think it touches on some of this... if only I could remember the author... former music hack I think. (hopefully not Julie Burchill). Interesting subject anyhow, do you have more details on these incidents?

Hi Mighty Thor,

There were incidents during the later war years in some major cities of youths attacking Hitler Youths. There was definitely an independent youth culture outside the Hitler Youth that was not necessarily politically motivated but rebellious against imposed authority in the normal way.

Cheers,

Sid