USS Liberty

[Rodger Herbst]

Seen the bombing and straffing of the Liberty by Isralies on the history channel,i know it's been on before,anybody have any idea how this came about and why the cover up according to the crew,who in my opinion sound very convincing.

[Ernest Penfold]

I read a book many, many years ago. I believe it was called "Assault on the Liberty", I no longer remember the author. For those of you not familiar with the story, the USS Liberty was an electronic spy ship in the Mediterranean cruising off the northern coast of the Sinai peninsula in 1967. During the Six Day War it was attacked and heavily damaged by Israeli aircraft and then later torpedoed three times by Israeli MTBs despite the presence of a very large US flag and radio warnings. There was heavy loss of US lives. The Israeli government later apologised and paid a restitution which the US government accepted.

The reason given for the attack was the presumed fear that the USS Liberty would give away information about the pre-emptive Israeli air attack. (The Israelis claim to have mistaken the vessel for an Egyptian freighter. However, declassified transcripts of Israeli pilots chatter revealed that they knew they were attacking an American vessel.) There was also a claim (I don't know if it was ever substantiated) that the Israelis had massacred Egyptian POWs and the USS Liberty had learnt of it. The crewmen of the Liberty were made to swear not to reveal details of the attack publicly, although years later some have come forward with their story. There are a multitude of reasons given for the coverup, from "Zionist control of the US government" to the US simply not wishing to further embarrass an ally.

[Walter Wulfsen]

Rodger, what you probably saw was the agreed upon, 'official' version that was jointly contrived by the U.S. and Israeli Governments. The truth may be found on the following excellent websites. It is a little more complicated and messy, but then the truth often is.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty

http://www.ussliberty.org


P.S. With so-called friends, so-called democracies and so-called allies like this one, who needs enemies?

[Rodger Herbst]

Paid restitution with our own money,we sure as hell give them enough.

[Walter Wulfsen]

Paid restitution with our own money,we sure as hell give them enough.

Ya, Rodger, it seems there always are some people who know how to get others to pay for everything!

[Landser]

Paid restitution with our own money,we sure as hell give them enough.

It's an open secret that Israel's lobby is the biggest and most powerfull one in the US Congress.Since they cover it unilaterely none of them dares to oppose Israel publicly.

The funny part about this situation
is,that part of the appropiated aids never leave the country and are used to finance the lobby.That means the more Israel is getting the more our Congressmembers can expect to cash in.And it's all LEGAL.

[KlemenL]

It's an open secret that Israel's lobby is the biggest and most powerfull one in the US Congress.Since they cover it unilaterely none of them dares to oppose Israel publicly.

Well, it would be ncie to ask yourselve first how much do American jewish community contribuite to the overall US national budget. From what I could tell many of them are very successfull businessmen today and respectful scientists. Successfull businessmen create new jobes for people who can then pay taxes. Scientists help economy to progress.

So I think that it is a bit too harsh if we say that Israel has USA for ... eh.. how do you say in America... for her bal*s? If you ask me it is most likely the other way around. I was very suprised to hear Sharon's speech after his last meeting with Bush just a few days ago when he said "Yes, Mr. President, I will furfill my promise that I gave to you ...". It sounded a bit unusual, at least in my ears.

Further, most of US financial aid to Israel the latter spends in USA, where they buy most of their aircraft, tanks, vehicles and other small ammunition, so most of the money actually comes back to United States. Israel, as far as I know, also extensively shares, in the last decade or so, some vital intelligence information with the Americans, especially about such countries like Iran, to where CIA cannot infiltrate so easily and skillfully as Mossad.

USS Liberty was in my opinion just another sad casualty of Cold War. We can discuss endlessly about Israelis deliberately attacking the USN spy ship (with the emphasize on "spy"), but then again I am sure some our our esteemed British colleagues on this forum could also argue that that American pilot saw the identification marks on British Warriors, when they were attacked by some US aircraft during the Gulf War 1991. Just my few EU cents on this.

[Landser]

Klemen wrote

Well, it would be ncie to ask yourselve first how much do American jewish community contribuite to the overall US national budget. From what I could tell many of them are very successfull businessmen today and respectful scientists. Successfull businessmen create new jobes for people who can then pay taxes. Scientists help economy to progress.

Now that's kind of a lame excuse,first of all this are AMERICANS first,that what irkeds the people.If you take this position than how much would we have to give other nations because we have plenty more successful people of other religions contributing.

Israel, as far as I know, also extensively shares, in the last decade or so, some vital intelligence information with the Americans,

Now the biggest damage to the US security ever done by traiters,guess by whom?
Remember this names Rosenberg,Fuchs and Pollard who is considered a folks hero in Israel.
Was it not also Israeli intelligence insisted on Saddam accumulating all them massive WMDs?


Israeli Spying: The Mother of all Scandals
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/mothe ... ndals.html

[KlemenL]

Now that's kind of a lame excuse,first of all this are AMERICANS first,that what irkeds the people.If you take this position than how much would we have to give other nations because we have plenty more successful people of other religions contributing.

Naturally 5.7 million American Jews cannot compare with tens of millions Christian or other religion Americans, but I think you would agree with me that those 5.7 million Jews in USA are very successfull and influential. And we both know that you don't get influence if you are not successfull. So it is a bit unfair to compare Jews with other larger groups. A quick glimpse in the American history will reveal you that many American Jews significantly contributed to the American science, economy and education. In fact, some of the most known Americans of 20th century are of Jewish faith.

Now the biggest damage to the US security ever done by traiters,guess by whom? Remember this names Rosenberg,Fuchs and Pollard who is considered a folks hero in Israel. Was it not also Israeli intelligence insisted on Saddam accumulating all them massive WMDs?

Rosenberg and Fuchs were both pre-war time members of the American respectively German communist parties. I am really not in a mood right now to explain you how the communist party worked, but I can tell you that the loyalty to Stalin, Moscow and communism came first. Any your feelings for any national interest for your fatherland had to be subjected to communism and your loyalty to it. Besides that this is the first time I hear Fuchs was a Jew. Wasn't he a Quaker? I am suprised how come no one in Los Alamos did not no any security check of him before being allowed to work on a Manhattan project. He joined the German communist party already before Nazis assumed power in Germany.

As far Pollard is concerned may I telly ou that you have very unusual or if I may I say a bit naive perceptions about how intelligence services are working. Spying among the Allies is not something what Israelis have invented. In fact, I am sure that as we speak both Israelis and Americans are still monitoring and spying on each other. Not so long ago there was a minor scandal in UK when Blair is reported to receive secret transcripts from British intelligence from private conversations of French president Chirac about his views about Iraq War (1). There is also no secret that in 1970s, when France was objecting Uk to enter the EU, the British were tapping ther French government communications. or another fresh case from 1970s, when Americans aka Eisenhower Administration were spying the French and British during the Suez Crisis (2). The discovery of a friendly spy among your ranks certainly causes a lot of embarassment for the government to which the spy belongs to, but that's more or less it. So nothing shocking or revolutionary new. Nor did Pollard cause the breakdown of entire US security system. He was a human virus, nothing more.

(1): http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/reso ... tions.html

(2): http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... tnG=Search

[Walter Wulfsen]

As far as Fuchs is concerned, I have read that he was a Jew and also that he was the son of a Lutheran minister. In either case, I don't know for sure. What is certain is that he was tightly wrapped up in the Communist party of Germany and the worldwide Communist movement. His closest associates, in the help he provided to the former Soviet Union, were all Communist Jews. These people included Harry Gold, David Greenglass and the Rosenbergs. For verification check the folowing.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USArosenbergT.htm

http://www.spartacus.co.uk/USAgoldH.html

The things which are certain are that: Fuchs was trusted by the U.S. Government, and he was a Communist spy and traitor. I don't care whether he was Lutheran, Atheist, or Jewish, he was certainly deserving of the death penalty, which he did not receive.

Cheers, Walter

[Rodger Herbst]

Jeez Walter don't say death penalty,some Europeans will wet thier pants.

[Landser]

Jeez Walter don't say death penalty,some Europeans will wet thier pants.

LOL

But why not according to Texas style justice.Life is cheap in USA.

[Walter Wulfsen]

Jeez Walter don't say death penalty,some Europeans will wet thier pants.

Hi Rodger,

Yes, Rodger, it seems far too many Europeans are more concerned with the rights of criminals, as opposed to those of the victims of crime. For example, I read a story recently, within the last month, about an elderly woman in Britain. It seems that she was plagued by low-life burglars, so she put up a barbed-wire fence around her house. [One can't own firearms to protect oneself in England anymore. That is why there is a very high violent crime (rape, sexual assault, violent murder, robbery, car-jackings, burglary, muggings, etc.) rate in England right now.] The 'authorities' in Britain insisted that she immediately take down the barbed-wire fence, because burglars and robbers may injure themselves. That is positively uncivilized. Fu#@ing degenerates!

Cheers, Walter

[Rodger Herbst]

I agree Walter,you probably heard about the new law in Florida,you can now meet force with force,as you know we have a right to carry(with a permit)a concealed weapon.Now you have a right to defend yourself with deadly force if you are in a legal place and someone threatens you with a force which you believe might harm you,you can respond with deadly force.People were tired of being at the mercy of crooks,they put a gun in your face,you handed over your hard earned money,begged for your life and some hophead would shoot you anyway.They law got off to a good start,some punk walked into a convenience store with a ski mask on,shot a round off and demanded the money,the 74old lady reached under the counter,came up with a 38 and plugged him in the chest,the gun went flying,the mask fell off and he staggered out of the store,went to the hospital,said he shot himself,seems the cops didn't believe him,one more punk off the street.He's lucky she didn't have a Maggie or she would have dropped him in his tracks.Car jackers better be careful,they used to like to hijack women,but lot of women have carry permits,and know how to use a weapon,it's part of the training to get a permit.

[Walter Wulfsen]

Rodger, I love that new Florida Law. It is now 'open season' on violent criminals. Lock and load, in that order.

Cheers, Walter

P.S. Meanwhile, the 'authorities' in England will no doubt soon require granny to put out tea and scones for the burglars, or risk fines and/or jail time.