Hi Reb,
I was last in Atlanta in about this season in 1984. The only conversation I then had was in the Greyhound station with the first speaking Coca-Cola vending machine I had met.
Your invitation sounds much more inviting.
Cheers,
Sid.
Leibstandarte Vs Aussies in Greece,1941 approx.
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Craig Soward
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Respected Australians
The Australians were well respected by the WAFFEN SS & other German units that fought against them. Their legend was forged at Gallipoli in Turkey, April 25th 1915 & continued on into WW2 at places like Tobruk, Kokoda & Crete.
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun & in the morning...WE WILL REMEMBER THEM. LEST WE FORGET!
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JohnWilliam88
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Hi,
All I have seen are some comments made by Rommel;
Here is a quote from "Rommel" by Desmond Young.
"The Australians he considered rough, particually with the Italians, but it was the sort of roughness which amused him and did not show "a bad heart." He ranked Australians highly as individual fighting men but thought they were inclined to get out of hand. He would have liked a division of them but remarked that an army of Australians would not be an easy command."
Another quote from the same text.
"9th Australian Division was not to be overawed by Rommel or any one else. This sort of fighting, where what counted was the tenacity and initiative of sections and individuals, was what Australians were best at."
John.
Do you have any more information about this? reports or quotes from German officers or soldiers?The Australians were well respected by the WAFFEN SS & other German units that fought against them.
All I have seen are some comments made by Rommel;
Here is a quote from "Rommel" by Desmond Young.
"The Australians he considered rough, particually with the Italians, but it was the sort of roughness which amused him and did not show "a bad heart." He ranked Australians highly as individual fighting men but thought they were inclined to get out of hand. He would have liked a division of them but remarked that an army of Australians would not be an easy command."
Another quote from the same text.
"9th Australian Division was not to be overawed by Rommel or any one else. This sort of fighting, where what counted was the tenacity and initiative of sections and individuals, was what Australians were best at."
John.
"We owe it to the title on our sleeve"
-Dietrich
-Dietrich
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Christoph Awender
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This is what the KTB Panzergruppe 1 and KTB OKH say with personal additions.
11.4.1941:
LAH: Advance elements take Veve (Vevi?) against occasional heavy resistance. The advance has to be stopped because of heavy enemy artillery fire from the heights to the south. The area is well defended and the roads are blocked by obstacles and mines. The enemy positions can just be taken by outflanking them with infantry.
Elements at Florina are replaced by 73.Inf.Div. later.
12.4.1941:
LAH: 12:00 the companies start the prepared attack on the Klidipass south of Veve. Attached artillery, a s.Abt. (8,8) and Stg. support the attack. The Stg. and a AT-platoon with self-propelled AT-guns join the frontal assault. After hours of heavy close combat the enemy positions can be taken until the evening. 100 new zealand and british soldiers and 20 M.G. are captured.
I./LAH starts to pursue the withdrawing enemy and takes the southern exit of the pass tomorrow.
13.4.1941:
LAH: I./LAH takes the southern exit of the Klidi pass. As the battalion reaches the open field enemy tanks and infantry counterattack from the hills southeast of the road. The AT- and heavy weapons of the battalion are still behind at the pass. As the first tanks break into the position of the first company two 8,8 which were rushed forward open fire from the pass area. Eight enemy tanks are destroyed before the rest withdraws. The Klidi pass is now fully in german hands. LAH lost 50 soldiers (KIA). 600 british soldiers are captured.
See more in the daily reports section of my site.
\Christoph
11.4.1941:
LAH: Advance elements take Veve (Vevi?) against occasional heavy resistance. The advance has to be stopped because of heavy enemy artillery fire from the heights to the south. The area is well defended and the roads are blocked by obstacles and mines. The enemy positions can just be taken by outflanking them with infantry.
Elements at Florina are replaced by 73.Inf.Div. later.
12.4.1941:
LAH: 12:00 the companies start the prepared attack on the Klidipass south of Veve. Attached artillery, a s.Abt. (8,8) and Stg. support the attack. The Stg. and a AT-platoon with self-propelled AT-guns join the frontal assault. After hours of heavy close combat the enemy positions can be taken until the evening. 100 new zealand and british soldiers and 20 M.G. are captured.
I./LAH starts to pursue the withdrawing enemy and takes the southern exit of the pass tomorrow.
13.4.1941:
LAH: I./LAH takes the southern exit of the Klidi pass. As the battalion reaches the open field enemy tanks and infantry counterattack from the hills southeast of the road. The AT- and heavy weapons of the battalion are still behind at the pass. As the first tanks break into the position of the first company two 8,8 which were rushed forward open fire from the pass area. Eight enemy tanks are destroyed before the rest withdraws. The Klidi pass is now fully in german hands. LAH lost 50 soldiers (KIA). 600 british soldiers are captured.
See more in the daily reports section of my site.
\Christoph
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Craig Soward
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John & Timo,
I cant recall the exact source at the moment but it was in a book about the Leibstandarte (if my memory serves me correctly), I think it was via fighting in Crete or at Tobruk that the Leibstandarte had contact with the Australian forces & commented on how well they fought (could possibly have been Sepp Dietrich who passed the comment).
Cheers,
Craig.
I cant recall the exact source at the moment but it was in a book about the Leibstandarte (if my memory serves me correctly), I think it was via fighting in Crete or at Tobruk that the Leibstandarte had contact with the Australian forces & commented on how well they fought (could possibly have been Sepp Dietrich who passed the comment).
Cheers,
Craig.
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun & in the morning...WE WILL REMEMBER THEM. LEST WE FORGET!
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JohnWilliam88
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Craig Soward
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Crete is an island near Greece isnt it?
Tobruk was in the North African sphere, so you are right, no WAFFEN SS units fought there (should have remembered that sorry).
Cheers,
Craig.
Tobruk was in the North African sphere, so you are right, no WAFFEN SS units fought there (should have remembered that sorry).
Cheers,
Craig.
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun & in the morning...WE WILL REMEMBER THEM. LEST WE FORGET!
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JohnWilliam88
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Craig Soward
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[quote="Timo"...yes, but it was captured by air (Fallschirmjäger and Luftlande). Not a single Waffen-SS unit was involved.[/quote]
Ok, I will have to look through some of my books Timo & try & find where I saw it written....must have been in Greece then.
Cheers,
Craig
Ok, I will have to look through some of my books Timo & try & find where I saw it written....must have been in Greece then.
Cheers,
Craig
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun & in the morning...WE WILL REMEMBER THEM. LEST WE FORGET!
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sid guttridge
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Hi Craig,
In Greece the LAH failed in its first attack on the Australians, but, if memory serves me correctly, this was largely because it was mounted off the march with inferior numbers. I think the Waffen-SS had about a battalion with little support, whereas the Australians were part of a full brigade group.
This rebuff was further flattered by the fact that the LAH had just marched through Yugoslavia against minimal resistance.
Again, if memory serves me correctly, the LAH encountered the most determined opposition of the campaign further west against the Greek Cavalry Division in the region of, I think, Castoria. (I believe I gave more details earlier in this thread).
Cheers,
Sid
In Greece the LAH failed in its first attack on the Australians, but, if memory serves me correctly, this was largely because it was mounted off the march with inferior numbers. I think the Waffen-SS had about a battalion with little support, whereas the Australians were part of a full brigade group.
This rebuff was further flattered by the fact that the LAH had just marched through Yugoslavia against minimal resistance.
Again, if memory serves me correctly, the LAH encountered the most determined opposition of the campaign further west against the Greek Cavalry Division in the region of, I think, Castoria. (I believe I gave more details earlier in this thread).
Cheers,
Sid
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Craig Soward
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I actually found something interesting (contary to what I had read before) on what the Leibstandarte thought of the 6th Australian Division, when they faced them at the Klidi Pass, on 10th April 1941;
"For many of the SS men, this was their first sighting of Imperial troops, whom one Leibstandarte participant dismissed condescendingly as mercenaries. He also commented that the Australians do not seem to be as well disciplined as the English, nor do they wear their uniform, as a soldier should". (taken from SS Leibstandarte; The history of the First SS Division 1933-1945 by Rupert Butler, Spellmount, 2001, Page 71).
Interesting but not surprising, as the Australian soldier (or Digger) as he was known, was well recognised as a larrikin, dating back to the blooding of the ANZAC forces, back at Gallipoli in WW1, where they constantly rebelled against the pompous British officer class.
Not surprising that the Elite Leibstandarte men found the Aussies like this.
"For many of the SS men, this was their first sighting of Imperial troops, whom one Leibstandarte participant dismissed condescendingly as mercenaries. He also commented that the Australians do not seem to be as well disciplined as the English, nor do they wear their uniform, as a soldier should". (taken from SS Leibstandarte; The history of the First SS Division 1933-1945 by Rupert Butler, Spellmount, 2001, Page 71).
Interesting but not surprising, as the Australian soldier (or Digger) as he was known, was well recognised as a larrikin, dating back to the blooding of the ANZAC forces, back at Gallipoli in WW1, where they constantly rebelled against the pompous British officer class.
Not surprising that the Elite Leibstandarte men found the Aussies like this.
They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun & in the morning...WE WILL REMEMBER THEM. LEST WE FORGET!
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sid guttridge
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Hi Craig,
Be very cautious with any book by Butler. He is a popular journalist, not a historian, by trade, who does litte or no primary research himself and tends to sacrifice hard facts for sensationalism. If he has a footnote (which I doubt) follow it back to source. His is tabloid military history.
Cheers,
Sid.
Be very cautious with any book by Butler. He is a popular journalist, not a historian, by trade, who does litte or no primary research himself and tends to sacrifice hard facts for sensationalism. If he has a footnote (which I doubt) follow it back to source. His is tabloid military history.
Cheers,
Sid.