Hi 101st Doc,
Axis prisoners were used as labourers voluntarily. The Geneva Convention and Red Cross guaranteed them a subsistence existence in POW camps. However, if they wanted any luxuries from the camp shop they needed a source of income. The most common way of acquiring this income was to volunteer for work on farms.
Cheers,
Sid.
Scandal-How Allies Treated German POW's
Moderator: John W. Howard
Sidney,
"Axis prisoners were used as labourers voluntarily. The Geneva Convention and Red Cross guaranteed them a subsistence existence in POW camps. However, if they wanted any luxuries from the camp shop they needed a source of income. The most common way of acquiring this income was to volunteer for work on farms."
Do you mean with the exclusion of the German POw's in the Russian camps?
"Axis prisoners were used as labourers voluntarily. The Geneva Convention and Red Cross guaranteed them a subsistence existence in POW camps. However, if they wanted any luxuries from the camp shop they needed a source of income. The most common way of acquiring this income was to volunteer for work on farms."
Do you mean with the exclusion of the German POw's in the Russian camps?
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sid guttridge
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101stDoc
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Seems they worked all over the place really.
I posted a query awhile back about a German POW "strike" at a bean cannery in Belle Glade, FL. Apparently, they'd not recieved their cigarette ration, and 205 decided to "strike". It lasted two days, during which they were put on bread & water. They eventually went back to work. I've been looking for more info on this one. Anyone read anything about it? Figure it's gotta have been written about somewhere.
Doc
I posted a query awhile back about a German POW "strike" at a bean cannery in Belle Glade, FL. Apparently, they'd not recieved their cigarette ration, and 205 decided to "strike". It lasted two days, during which they were put on bread & water. They eventually went back to work. I've been looking for more info on this one. Anyone read anything about it? Figure it's gotta have been written about somewhere.
Doc
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sid guttridge
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Hi Nigelfe,
It seems unlikely to me that, under the Geneva Convention, POWs could be "required" to work in non-war production as it implies compulsion. I would be interested to learn more. Perhaps they could be "required" to work for their own subsistence so as not to be a burden on their captors?
Cheers,
Sid.
It seems unlikely to me that, under the Geneva Convention, POWs could be "required" to work in non-war production as it implies compulsion. I would be interested to learn more. Perhaps they could be "required" to work for their own subsistence so as not to be a burden on their captors?
Cheers,
Sid.
The use of POW for work purposes was covered in the Hague IV Treaty of 1907.
Art. 6.
"The State may utilize the labour of prisoners of war according to their rank and aptitude, officers excepted. The tasks shall not be excessive and shall have no connection with the operations of the war.
Prisoners may be authorized to work for the public service, for private persons, or on their own account.
Work done for the State is paid for at the rates in force for work of a similar kind done by soldiers of the national army, or, if there are none in force, at a rate according to the work executed.
When the work is for other branches of the public service or for private persons the conditions are settled in agreement with the military authorities.
The wages of the prisoners shall go towards improving their position, and the balance shall be paid them on their release, after deducting the cost of their maintenance. "
This was the treaty still in force in WW2.
ps This web-site gives excellent details of the rules of wars in modern history,
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/lawwar.htm
A must for anybody interested in warfare in the 19th and 20th centuries
Art. 6.
"The State may utilize the labour of prisoners of war according to their rank and aptitude, officers excepted. The tasks shall not be excessive and shall have no connection with the operations of the war.
Prisoners may be authorized to work for the public service, for private persons, or on their own account.
Work done for the State is paid for at the rates in force for work of a similar kind done by soldiers of the national army, or, if there are none in force, at a rate according to the work executed.
When the work is for other branches of the public service or for private persons the conditions are settled in agreement with the military authorities.
The wages of the prisoners shall go towards improving their position, and the balance shall be paid them on their release, after deducting the cost of their maintenance. "
This was the treaty still in force in WW2.
ps This web-site gives excellent details of the rules of wars in modern history,
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/lawwar.htm
A must for anybody interested in warfare in the 19th and 20th centuries
if in doubt, PANIC !!!!
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sid guttridge
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Noel Petroni
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Hi, DasReichX
I also saw BOB. I was disturbed with many of the things I learned about the Allies!
If you read BERLIN the downfall by A. Beavor you will be horrified to learn what the German population and soldiers went through! I'm amazed at how the German people today are on their feet again!
I have come to understand that the real evil was not Nazi Germany but, communist Russia and America! The Americans are still at it today.....they destruct and manage to issue a smooth verision to the media, who believe them!
The Allies tore, brutally raped girls and women, executed innocent young German soldiers on the spot without a trial, murdered civilians, looted.......the German populatio was at the mercy of the Allies.....the Allies played GOD with the Germans.....they decided who lived and died!!
Stalingrad was a playground next to the destruction of East Prussia and Berlin!
I also saw BOB. I was disturbed with many of the things I learned about the Allies!
If you read BERLIN the downfall by A. Beavor you will be horrified to learn what the German population and soldiers went through! I'm amazed at how the German people today are on their feet again!
I have come to understand that the real evil was not Nazi Germany but, communist Russia and America! The Americans are still at it today.....they destruct and manage to issue a smooth verision to the media, who believe them!
The Allies tore, brutally raped girls and women, executed innocent young German soldiers on the spot without a trial, murdered civilians, looted.......the German populatio was at the mercy of the Allies.....the Allies played GOD with the Germans.....they decided who lived and died!!
Stalingrad was a playground next to the destruction of East Prussia and Berlin!
Noel
America and Russia became a problem subsquent to World War II - so it is inaccurate to say that they are / were the real threat.
Why they became a threat of course has its roots in WW2 - the Russians had suffered so much they determined to keep a lid on Germany by military force. Plus you had the maniacal Stalin and his communists at the helm - but even Stalin realized that Russia was in no shape for more war - hence his fear of the Americans who unlike Russia had not completely worn themselves to a frazzle.
The Americans had mobilized to such a degree that our culture took on a military / industrial point of view that has been very difficult to get past.
The first postwar years acquainted them intimitely with the horrors of communism and that made it seem very dangerous to just suddenly dismantle the whole war machine.
Both feared the other and both had seen up close and personal the havoc of modern war. The Cold War was further complicated by Nuclear and other 'weapons of mass destruction' and both sides were wracked by internal complications. See Hungary, Afghanistan and Vietnam for instances of the two giants lashing out in anger and fear.
Cold War power politics has had very unfortunate effects on America - we have no where near the freedom we used to have and have unfortunately abandoned our policy of minding our own business. Yet in our defense have not been often called to the defense of our allies?
When you criticize the Americans and Russians for their conduct in Germany I suggest you consider very carefully what those soldiers had seen as they fought their way into the Reich. The Russians in particular had narrowly escaped annihilation and had fought their way back across thousands of miles of their own country and seen that it had been utterly devasted.
Both armies liberated concentration camps and saw sights that put them in a mood to take revenge on the people who had done that. The fact that most Germans were not involved in that stuff was not readily apparent to the average groundpounder fighting his way across this nation characterized as it was by the dark deeds of the Nazis. Deeds I might add - that have only ever been exceeded in sheer scale by the communists. Americans at our worst are mere pikers when it comes to that sort of thing.
To see the fighting in Germany through American eyes (and it is not particularly flattering - just honest) try McDonald's 'Company Commander.'
There are plenty of things one can say in criticism of both America and Russia but remember who attacked whom. The Germans initiated what was in fact the first of an ongoing stream of ideological wars - the world has become a place of continuing war ever since.
If you think the Americans are so bad - I suggest you ask yourself this simple question: Would you rather be invaded by Americans or the World War II German Wehrmact? I should think the answer is not too complicated!
cheers
Reb
America and Russia became a problem subsquent to World War II - so it is inaccurate to say that they are / were the real threat.
Why they became a threat of course has its roots in WW2 - the Russians had suffered so much they determined to keep a lid on Germany by military force. Plus you had the maniacal Stalin and his communists at the helm - but even Stalin realized that Russia was in no shape for more war - hence his fear of the Americans who unlike Russia had not completely worn themselves to a frazzle.
The Americans had mobilized to such a degree that our culture took on a military / industrial point of view that has been very difficult to get past.
The first postwar years acquainted them intimitely with the horrors of communism and that made it seem very dangerous to just suddenly dismantle the whole war machine.
Both feared the other and both had seen up close and personal the havoc of modern war. The Cold War was further complicated by Nuclear and other 'weapons of mass destruction' and both sides were wracked by internal complications. See Hungary, Afghanistan and Vietnam for instances of the two giants lashing out in anger and fear.
Cold War power politics has had very unfortunate effects on America - we have no where near the freedom we used to have and have unfortunately abandoned our policy of minding our own business. Yet in our defense have not been often called to the defense of our allies?
When you criticize the Americans and Russians for their conduct in Germany I suggest you consider very carefully what those soldiers had seen as they fought their way into the Reich. The Russians in particular had narrowly escaped annihilation and had fought their way back across thousands of miles of their own country and seen that it had been utterly devasted.
Both armies liberated concentration camps and saw sights that put them in a mood to take revenge on the people who had done that. The fact that most Germans were not involved in that stuff was not readily apparent to the average groundpounder fighting his way across this nation characterized as it was by the dark deeds of the Nazis. Deeds I might add - that have only ever been exceeded in sheer scale by the communists. Americans at our worst are mere pikers when it comes to that sort of thing.
To see the fighting in Germany through American eyes (and it is not particularly flattering - just honest) try McDonald's 'Company Commander.'
There are plenty of things one can say in criticism of both America and Russia but remember who attacked whom. The Germans initiated what was in fact the first of an ongoing stream of ideological wars - the world has become a place of continuing war ever since.
If you think the Americans are so bad - I suggest you ask yourself this simple question: Would you rather be invaded by Americans or the World War II German Wehrmact? I should think the answer is not too complicated!
cheers
Reb
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Noel Petroni
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My answer...NONE!If you think the Americans are so bad - I suggest you ask yourself this simple question: Would you rather be invaded by Americans or the World War II German Wehrmact? I should think the answer is not too complicated!
However, currently, I definetly would not like to be invaded by the Americans!!! Ask this question to the Iraqi's!
I say this time and time again; we can imagine and even in some cases believe what atrocities the Americans and British did during the end of the war and after. HOWEVER, we will never find any prove because any such incident would have been srtuck off the records.
It displeases me to see that the German soldier of WWII is still a villian, still the bad guy in many peoples eyes...........and the American & British still the good guy! In my opinion, they all committed the good and the bad.
It also displeases me to learn how many good German commanders were treated after the war. Such as Kurt Meyer, Pieper and many others. their was no justification in their trials. Just as there were no justification in many trials and on-the-spot executions of the common young German soldier.