Radfahr Brigade Seitz

[MadDog]

I have come across a number of references to a Radfahr Brigade Seitz, which appears to also take the name "Geis", or "Geiss" or "Seis" at other points in the September 1944 19th Army KTB and anlage. Sometimes the name is prefixed by "Marine".

Assuming that all of these are the same unit, does anyone know anything about this unit, such as what the composition was ? The 19th arym recors so far indicate it had 2 Btl., each w/ 3 Co., 1436 men, 58 MG.

thanks,

Mad Dog

[MadDog]

Sorry... "army records".....

Mad Dog

[hero.]

Hello Mad Dog !

This is what I was able to find on the origin and background of the units you mentioned :

When 159. Res.Div. started its withdrawal from the area of Bordeaux around 26th of August, 1944,
it formed 3 march groups. Group III was led by Oberst Gustav Seiz, who had been Kommandant
of Gross-Bordeaux from 30.6.1942 onward and later in 1944 was promoted to Gen.Maj. [according to Keilig].

March group III ( ~ 10,000 men in total, with Sich.Rgt. 197, 3 Marine-Rgt., Anti-Air personnel (mostly from RAD))
moved north of the Dordogne over Montendre - Archiac and arrived ca. 10 km south of Cognac in the night
from 29th to 30th August [this and the following info is from FMS-A960].

At that time Oberst Seiz was ordered to pass over command to an Admiral Weber, who was ordered to reach the area
of Poitiers with his march group as soon as possible.

At the same time, the plan of Armee-Grp. G (Blaskowitz) was, to establish a solid bridgehead in the area of Dijon,
which should then take up the units, withdrawing from the south and southwest. To secure this bridgehead, some
more mobile troops had to be brought up to that area of Dijon as soon as possible [Ludewig, Der dt. Rückzug, p. 209].

Therefore, 159. Res.Div. restructured its units into 3 new march groups :
- one motorized march group (A)
- one mobile on bicycles (B)
- one mobile by foot (C)

Oberst Seiz was given the command on all bicycle-mobile units (B), which were sent to him from the
3 former marchgroups. They assembled in the area southeast and east of Poitiers.

This newly formed marchgroup (possibly designated as Radfahr-Brigade Seiz) had the following Gliederung :
- Rgt. A :
-- Staff & 1 reinforced Btn. Sich.Rgt. 197
-- 1 Btn. Marine personnel
-- 1 Btn. Luftwaffe personnel
in total about 2,000 men

- Rgt. B :
-- Staff & 3 battalions RAD (former antiaircraft Bordeaux)
in total about 3,000 men

The brigade was armed with rifles and MG only, no heavy weapons.
It had an additional motorized radio section.

The newly formed Radfahrbrigade Seiz started its march on 2:00 a.m., Sept. 1st, 1944 and arrived east of Dijon
on Sept., 5th without major enemy interference. There the brigade was dissolved the next day. The RAD personell
was sent to Belfort, while the other units were transferred to the area of Besancon.

In the book : Die Geschichte d. HGru G, D. Bettinger, p. 113, some infos can be found on those latter parts :
On Sept., 8th, Radfahr-Rgt. Gieß (former part of [Radfahr-]Brigade Seitz (should be Seiz)) arrived in the
area north of Besancon and was subordinated to Gen.Kdo. Dehner.

At that time, Radfahr-Regiment Gieß consisted of
- I. Btl. (ex I./Sich.Rgt. 197)
-- 3 Schützen-Kp.
-- 1 schwere Kp.
in total = 480 men

- II. Btl.
-- 200 men from the Marine (Navy)
(almost no infantry-training and poorly equipped)

I would assume that Radf.-Rgt. Gieß consists of the main body of the former Rgt. A of Radf.-Brigade Seiz,
but there is no further information on any changes in the composition between the arrival near Dijon,
and its deployment at Besancon. Could you have a look to what date the 19th army strenght report refers to ?

Hope that helps ,
best regards,

hero.

[MadDog]

Wow. You are really far ahead of me. That is a most impressive writeup from what little data is out there. Thank you for being very thorough.

I had not gotten to the point of looking through the various FMS documents, but I see you already found the best one on the subject.

I also made the mistake of assuming Seitz=Seis=Geiss from the similar spellings.


I found the strength data from RH20-19/98, frame 119:

marine.jpg (240.27 KiB) Viewed 4123 times

Radfahr Brigade Seitz/Geiss shows up in a number of 19th army records:

KG Seitz


RH20-19/96 (19th Army)

Sept 5 (125)



RH20-19/97 (19th Army)

Sept 6 (38)

Sept 7 (66) ("Radfahr Brig. Seitz")

Sept 7 (76)

Sept 7 (68)

Sept 7 (70) ("Radfahr Brig. Seitz")

Sept 8 (145) ("Radfahr Brig Geis - Marine")

Sept 8 (151)

Sept 8 (164)

Sept 10 (281) ("Mar.Brig.")

Sept 10 (284) ("Mar.Rgt.")



RH20-19/98 (19th Army)

Sept 12 (78) (s) ("Marine Regt.")

Sept 13 (119) (s) ("Marine Regt")

Sept 6 (147) ("Radfahr Brig.Seitz")

Sept 8 (150) ("Radfahr Brig. Geiss")

Sept 8 (151) ("Geiss")

Sept 9 (152) ("Rgt.Geiss (Marine)")


thanks,

Mad Dog

[hero.]

Hello Mad Dog !

Please allow me some remarks :

1) I had pure luck, that I stumbled across the reference to FMS-A960 in the book by Ludewig.
Once you follow that trace, the origin of the unit is quite clear. Other searches for the
unit designation totally failed !


2) Regarding the confusion with the names :
I think, your first approach was completely justified. Considering that Radfahr-Brigade Seiz/Seitz
existed merely 6 days, and taking into account the general situation with so many units on the move, torn apart,
I think many higher headquarters had only a rough idea on the size and status of the different units
on withdrawal and no exact information on the designation. So misspellings of similar sounding names like :
Seitz, Seiz, Geis, Giess or Gies could easily happen ! (I could give you numerous examples #d, if you know what I mean !)


3) Thanks to the information you provided, one could give a tentavively organizational history :
[The additional information is again from Bettinger, Die Geschichte der HGru G]. In short :
Radfahr-Brigade Seiz sent to Dijon => split into Radfahr-Regiment Gieß and the RAD-Rgt. (the RAD-Rgt. was dissolved)

Radfahr-Regiment Giess/Geis sent to Besancon => split into its two Btls.
I. Btl. arrived there on 9 a.m. of Sept., 8th, was subordinated to Gen.Kdo. Dehner and put immediately to the front
II.Btl. = Marine-Btl. (arrived at the evening, became Korps-Reserve of Gen.Kdo. Dehner in the area of Voray - Sorans)

What happened afterwards to the two batallions is not clear from my data. But from the book of Bettinger,
some explanations for the different entries you cited, can be given.

- On the night from 6th to 7th September, 19th army ordered the Radfahr-Brigade Seiz to be sent to Besancon and
be subordinated to Gen.Kdo Dehner

- As the RAD parts of the brigade had already left, only Rgt. Geis/Geiß was transferred to Besancon but
possibly it was still referred to as Radfahr-Brigade on the 8th, now designated after its CO Giess/Geiss.

- From 9th Sept. onward, it is referred to as Rgt. Geiss/Giess
In the book of Bettinger, the two battalions are designated as I./ and II./Gies (Marine)

- From the 7th of Sept. onward, LXXXV. A.K. took over command of the area around Belfort.
It was assigned several tasks. On 12th of Sept. it reported what it had done. Among that :

- Assembling and training of Marine-soldiers

To accomplish this task, a Marine-Rgt. was formed :
- Rgt. Headquarters with HQ-company and Kfz.-Kp.
-- 3 Btl. with 3 Kp. each : strength : 32 Offz. / 204 Uffz. / 1200 E.M.; 58 MG.
( which would exactly match your strength report from 13th of Sept., 1944 )
The training of the regiment was lead by 3 experienced infantry officers and 10 Uffz of the army-branch.

At the moment, one can only suspect, whether II./Gies (Marine) was among that units, that were assembled
in that Marine-Rgt [Bettinger, p. 139].

Best regards,

hero.

[MadDog]

Another excellent summation on your part. About the only thing I could add is that there was a Marine Batl. Heller, which shows up:


T311 R141 (HeeresGroup G)

Sept 10 (7186343)


RH20-19/99 (19th Army)

Sept 16 (122)


RH20-19/101 (19th Army)

Sept 24 (173) ("Marine Kp.Heller")


RH20-19/103 (19th Army)

Sept 21 gliederung (part of KG Ottenbacher)

thanks,

Mad Dog

[MadDog]

Maybe another string to tie things together. T311 R141 f7186343 talks about a Marine Rgt. Schulz in Belfort as of Sept 4, composed (?) of Shff.Stm.Abt.18 (~800 men) and other units in transport. Maybe Schulz --> Geiss.

Mad Dog