4th Army Dec'44

[donwhite]

4th Army
(Division level as at 5th Dec'44, Heerestruppen level as at 7th Dec'44, same sources as XX Korps post)
Direct attachments
Harko.302
H.StuG.Brig.209,909 & 185(o.1)z.v.H.Gr
H.Art.Abt.906(10cm K/mot) bo?
Pi.Brucken-Btl.548(o.1)
Pz.Pi.Kp.812(goliath OKH)
Brucko B 27(Ger Einh m.Begl Kd)
Schneeraum Trupp.164/244 & 165/244
Fest-MG.Btl.68
Fest-Pak.Kp. 2/I
Pz.Abt.302 (Fkl)

more to come with the Armee Korps.

Cheers

[donwhite]

XXXIX Pz.Korps (with Fs.Pz.Korps 'HG") Defending on the boundary with 3rd Pz Army around Goldap.
28.Jg, 21.ID
Fs.Pz.Div 'HG' 1, Fs.PzG.Div.'HG' 2
Arko.140
H.StuG.Brig.279
H.Art.Abt.1063(le.FH/RSO)
H.Art.Abt.153 & 422(s.FH/10cm K/mot)
H.Art.Abt.I/108(s.FH/mot)
Pi.Regt.Stab.39
Pi.Btl.745(besp)
Pi.Brucken-Btl.I/548
Pi.Horch-u.Min.Kp.Tle.5
Bau-Pi.Btl.79 & 320
Fest.Stab.Inf.Regt.7
Fest-Btl.1438
Fest-Pak.Kp.11,13,1 5,16 & 21/VII
s.Pz.Abt.505
s.Pz.Jag.Abt.664 & 665(mot)

VI Armee Korps
558.V.Gr.,170,367 & 50 ID's
Arko 126
H.Art.Regt.Stab.788 z.b.V(mot)
H.StuG.Brig.259
H.Art.Battr.I/817(17cm K.mot)
H.Art.Abt.IV/109(s.FH.mot)
H.Art.Abt.808(21cm Morser/mot)
H.Art.Abt.845(s.FH/Sf)
le.Beob.Abt.9(mot)
Beob.Abt.ball.Zg.4(tbew or Bo)
Pi.Regt.Stab.10
Pi.Horch-u.Min.Kp.Tle.5
Bau.Pi.Btl.125,419(o.1),516 & II/999
Fest.Btl.1411
Fest-Pak.Kp.7,8,14 & 17/VII
Pz.Zuge.32,682 & 76
Verm.u.Kart.Abt.726
Gren-Btl.z.b.V.560? (bewarh)

more to come

Cheers

[donwhite]

Kav Korps
131.ID, Gr.Hannibal, 4.Kav.Brig
Arko.35
H.Art.Regt.Stab.z.b.V.609(mot)
H.Art.Abt.426(le.FH/RSO)
Beob.Abt.65(tbew)
Pi.Regt.Stab.1
Pi.Btl.268(t.mot)
Bau-Pi.Btl.91, 97, 584 & 244
Res-Bau-A.Btl.244
Fest-Pak.Kp.2/I

LV Armee Korps
547 & 562.V.Gr., 203.ID, 286.Sich ID
Arko.146
H.StuG.Brig,1/185 & 4/920
H.Art.Abt.860(le.FH/RSO)
H.Art.Abt.II/39(s.FH/mot)
H.Art.Abt.II/63(21cm Morser/mot)
Beob.Abt.61(tbew)
H.Stu.Pi.Brig.627
Pi.Btl.I/ & II/627
Pi.Btl.500
Pi.Btl.632(besp)
Pi.Regt.Stab.z.b.V.544
Bau.Pi.Btl.44,532 & I/576
Fest-Btl.269
Fest-Pak.Kp.70/I & 1/I

[donwhite]

4th Army reserves as at 5th Dec'44

5.Pz.Div & 541.V.Gr Div

[skarsatai]

XXXIX Pz.Korps (with Fs.Pz.Korps 'HG") Defending on the boundary with 3rd Pz Army around Goldap.

Bau.Pi.Btl.125,419(o.1),516 & II/999


Cheers

WOHA !!
do you have more input of the 419 (o.1 --> what´s the meaning of ???)
where exacly were they stationed in December ?
maybe maps where I can see where they fought on divisional level ?
Any Order of Battle available for this unit for Dezember 1944 ?

any more detailed info more than appreciated :-)

for more infos about 419.Bau Pio Btl visit my website (all plain in german)


best regards

Martin

[donwhite]

Martin,

I believe (o.1) is short hand for 'less or 'without' 1st Company -o ='ohne'. (I generally don't read or speak German but I'm trying to rectify that!). The only maps that I have seen are at division level for the units displayed so the smaller attached heerestruppen don't appear. I don't actually have any further data on the 419th Bau-Pi.Btl. I'll have to recheck the maps that I do have to confirm the exact location of the divisions listed with VI AK. These maps I have are for Oct'44 & Jan'45.

Cheers

[skarsatai]

Hello donwhite
my last trace for 1944 is in september in the ostpreussenstellung. there, my grandfather was serverly wounded.
next trace is in 1945 January /Feb and March heiligenbeil kessel and königsberg pocket.

so looks like I found another trace to follow. I am very interested to see maps from december 1944 to understand were this unit was fighting if they moved or remained in the ostpreussenstellung area.

looking forward to hear more from you

Martin

[donwhite]

Martin,
I've a few more references for Bau-Pi-Btl.419. It shows up with XlI Pz Korps on the 28th August, 6th September and 6th October'44. By 3rd November'44 it is listed with the Kav Korps and again on the 6th November'44. It is not listed at all as far as I can tell for the 1st Dec'44 but then reappears with VI AK for the 7th December'44. 50.ID on the Jan'45 map(part of VI AK 7th Dec'44) appears south of Goldap. The other units (179, 367 & 558) stretch of to the south east generally and all of them except the 558.V.G.D are under XLI Pz Korps immediately prior to the Soviet Offensive. It would appear that their location/position in the front line is fairly stable from early December to mid January.

Cheers

[skarsatai]

Dear donwhite
Thank you for your info. really helpfull to me . How deep can you look into your resources ? You are the first person since 5 years who can tell me mor precise infos of this mostly unknown and forgotten unit..Can I ask you for an earlier timetable ?
I have the complete way from 1941 til 1945 but mostly not where their exact positions were or under what division level they stand. Mostly under army or korps level listed, but I would like to know their exact positions during their fights (three times there were fighting in a pocket twice they fought at a river in a desperate postion (once River in the back and tanks in front rushing towards their defence positions).with no Antitank weapons (rembember it was a Bau Pionier Btl). You can see this clearly in the MIA and KIA Lists for that location and timeframe. I have the MIA and KIA List, most of them do not appear in a Grave. Only one I found so far is listed on a german Hero graveyard...........



May I ask some more questions ( I hope I do not bother you).

Jan'45 map(part of VI AK 7th Dec'44) appears south of Goldap.

this map you refer to any chance that you can put it in here in the forum ?


to sort your info
XlI Pz Korps on the 28th August, 6th September and 6th October'44 (exat location my Grandfather was wounded : Damowski )
looks to me it was the ostpreussen stellung .
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
By 3rd November'44 it is listed with the Kav Korps and again on the 6th November'44
more precise korps info ? where located
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
1st Dec'44 but then reappears with VI AK for the 7th December'44. 50.ID on the Jan'45 map(part of VI AK 7th Dec'44) appears south of Goldap.
very valuable this info for me. Goldap this location I have to follow.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
It would appear that their location/position in the front line is fairly stable from early December to mid January.
agreed. same info I have

Greetings Martin

[skarsatai]

Hello Donwhite

1st Dec'44 but then reappears with VI AK for the 7th December'44. 50.ID on the Jan'45 map(part of VI AK 7th Dec'44) appears south of Goldap.

I looked into the map you sent me the link for.

I found the 50.ID, and south of it 367ID,170ID, and the 588 VGID. Do I understand this correctly? The 419.Bau Pio fought under the 50 ID ? Or did I overlooked the 419 position on the map Lage Ost10jan45 ?
greetings Martin

[donwhite]

Martin,

I don't know which unit the 419th served/fought with. The units mentioned were simply to illustrate the XLI Korps area of operations (and earlier the VI AK) that the 419th was listed as been a part of the Order of Battle. As mentioned the maps I have seen generally do not show any unit detail below division level.

Cheers