Molochansk Ukraine/ molochna river

[Granite]

I am interested in getting some maps or aerial photos, of the area around the molochna river and the towns of tokmak and molochansk in the Ukraine, 1941. Can anyone recomend any books or sources that mention this area in 1941. Trying to get a better understanding of the battles in this area, units involved, order of battle that sort of info. Pictures of molochansk any time from 1941 to 1943 would be great but also hard to come by , but i will ask anyway. Richard

[von Salza]

Hi Richard,

I don't think I have any maps for this area 1941, all I could come up with was the modern map of the area circa 1990. Should give you a general feel of the terrain though, although the towns and villages might have been a bit smaller in 1941.




Is there a particular battle or period of 1941 you are interested in. I could see if I have anything.

Regards

David

[Granite]

Thanks for the reply, and very nice map, much better than the modern version i found online. The village molochansk or Halbstadt as it was known in earlier times pre revolution, is my grandmothers {from my dads side of the family} home village. I recently found some old cassette tapes in which she talks about her life in this village from 1914 to around 1941. She no longer lived there in 41 but she did return to the family estate and it was still standing in 41. I know that in 1943 that the retreating germans destroyed some of the village. I would be interested in knowing if actual battles took place in 41 in the village or did russian forces pull back to reestablish defensive positions further east. I would also be interested in battles or troop movements in 1943 in the village, German and Russian. About 7 km west of of molochansk and the molochna river was a hill called colonitza hill, this elevated position could have been used as a strong point or defensive position by either side in 41 or 43 ,and i have found some mention of a war memorial on this site, but have not found any battle info. I have a map of the village from 1913 and a good understanding of the events in the village before the war, i need to fill in the war years 41-43 to get a better understanding of what happened in the village. For a time frame in 41 i would say september after the dnieper crossing. 1943 i dont know, i was side tracked on some russian revolution reading and have not researched this period much.

[von Salza]

Hi Richard,

Unfortunately the level of detail you are after simply isn't available in english language accounts. I don't know if the Germans referred to the offensive in this area, at the time in question, as anything other than a continuation by Army Group South in their drive forward under Operation Barbarossa. Although sometimes it is referred to as the 'Battle of the Sea of Azov'. The Soviets break their periods of war into helpful segments based on defensive or offensive operations. They refer to the fighting in this area and period as 'The Donbas-Rostov Strategic Defensive Operation, 29th September 1941-16th November 1941'. Lots of accounts German and Soviet are all too preoccupied with the renewal of the offensive on Moscow under Operation Typhoon during the period you are interested in, End September 1941-October 1941, so there is very little detail.

I have trawled through a few books but can provide no further detail other than high level strategic or operational level material. Here is what I could come up with;

There were two Soviet Armies defending the line forward (west) of Melitopol, the 9th Independant Army under Lt Gen Ya. T. Cherevichenko and 18th Army under Lt Gen A. K. Smirnov. The armies where arranged, north to south, 18th Army - 9th Ind Army. By my best guess (stress guess) I think the boundary lines between the two armies can't have been too far away from Tokmak, maybe a little south of the town.

The 18th Army consisted of 164th Rifle Division, 130th Rifle Division, 96th Mountain Rifle Division and 270th Rifle Division with a mobile reserve of the 2nd, 7th and 15th Tank Brigades. (Although at this stage of the campaign I'm not sure how mobile they would be or at what strength).

The 9th Ind Army consisted of 30th Mountain Rifle Division, 176th Rifle Division, 150th Rifle Division, 218th Motorised Division (But to all intents and purposes was fighting as a Rifle Division) and 296th Rifle Division. The Army had in reserve 12th Tank Brigade (of the 8th Tank Division), 30th Cavalry Division and 136th Rifle Division.

Pinning the Soviets in place were elements of the German 11th Army under Gen E. von Manstein with 1st Mountain Division, 4th Mountain Division, 170th Infantry Division, 72nd Infantry Division and elements of Rumanian Mountain Divisions and a Rumanian Cavalry Corps.

Army Group South's commander von Rundstedt planned and ordered an offensive on 25/09/41 by both III & XIV Motorised Corps from von Kleists 1st Panzer Group (later Army, 05/10/41?)) to swing south against the Sea of Azov intended to trap both 18th and 9th Ind Armies against the coast with no means of escape.

Both Motorised Corps attacked out of the Dnepropetrovsk Bridgehead on 01/10/41 with von Mackensen's III Motorised Corps heading for Melitopol and von Wietersheim's XIV Motorised Corps heading for Berdiansk. Both Soviet Armies were in great danger of being encircled and by 03/10/41 both were in retreat. von Manstein's 11th Army took up pursuit. By 05/10/41 III Motorised Corps had reached Melitopol and by 07/10/41 the trap shut at Berdiansk when LSSAH Motorised Division linked up with the XIV Motorised Corps trapping six divisions. After heavy fighting, in which 18th Army's Lt Gen A. K. Smirnov was KIA, the remnants of the two Soviet Armies attempted to fight their way out on 10/10/41. The 18th Army took the brunt of the losses. Of the records I have checked the 18th Army's 164th Rifle Division, 130th Rifle Division, 96th Mountain Rifle Division and 270th Rifle Division were 4 of the 6 divisions trapped and almost certainly were eliminated as fighting units in the encirlement.

Col Gen G F Krivosheev's book 'Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the Twentieth Century' details the losses during 'The Donbas-Rostov Strategic Defensive Operation, 29th September 1941-16th November 1941', for the Southern Front only, as;

Numerical Strength: 491,500
Irrecoverable Losses: 132,014
Sick & Wounded: 15,536
Total Losses: 147,370 or 3,007 per day.
Small Arms Losses: 369,000
Guns/Mortars Losses: 3,646
Tank/SPG Losses: 101
Combat Aircraft Losses: 240


If there was any fighting in Molochansk in 1941 it probably would have been within the 18th Army's zone but could have been attacked by elements of either von Mackensen's III Motorised corps pushing south to Melitopol or von Manstein's 11th Army harrassing the retreating Soviet 18th Army eastwards. Sorry I don't have anymore detailed info. General though the '41 information was I don't think I have anything approaching even that level of detail for 1943.

Was poking around the 'net' for something on Molochansk and stumbled upon this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotschna

You probably have all this already but just in case you don't.

Regards

David

[Granite]

Thanks for the reply David, i knew it would be tough to find the kind of detailed info on this little village.From what you have supplied i can search for further details and perhaps a unit history might mention the area. From my trolling the net i have come to realize that info on russian units is hard to find and harder to translate. The wiki link while very general in detail, is a good primer on the events and history of the area for anyone reading this thread. The wiki mentions the selbshutze and the fall of Halbstadt [ Molochansk] in 1919, and i have listened to my grandmothers tape in which she recalls her own version of the night Halbstadt fell and mentions her older brother fighting for the selbshutze, and the looting that followed a failed evacuation towards the crimea, really interesting stuff. But i am veering off topic back to 41, was the Russian army south under the command of general Budenny during this time? Regards Richard

[von Salza]

Hi Richard,

was the Russian army south under the command of general Budenny during this time?

No, the Southern Front was commanded by Lt. General D.I. Riabyshev, replaced by Lt. General Ia. T. Cherevichenko (previous commander of the Southern Front's 9th Army) on or about the 05/10/1941. Cherevichenko was singled out for particular praise for his counter offensive and recapture of Rostov in November-December 1941.

Marshal S. M. Budenny during September-October 1941 was commander of the Reserve Front formed for the defence of Moscow. Budenny presided over the defeats of the Uman encirclement in July 1941, the Kiev encirclement in September 1941(both whilst commander of the Southwestern Front) and the twin Viazma-Briansk enciclements of October 1941 (whilst commander of the Reserve Front).

Regards

David

[Abicht]

Richard-

Back to your original post - It is probable this area was covered by German aerial recon in 1941. I will take a look during my next trip to NARA to see if indeed there are any aerial photos of this area and let you know. I am pretty sure it was covered later in the 1943/44 if those are of interest to you too.

As far as maps go both the LOC (Library of Congress) and NARA here in Washington have extensive collections of German 1:25,000-1:300,000 scale maps captured after the war. You clould write then and ask what scales they have and if you can get a copy.

[Granite]

Thanks for the reply David and Albicht. Yes if you find any maps of either 41 or 43 in this area i would be interested. I probably should write a letter asking for info from the sources you provided, you never know what could be in the archives.