ENIGMA – Polish gift
July 24, 1939 is the day to be remembered forever. Cryptanalysts and heads of the Intelligence Services from France and Great Britain arrived in Pyry, near Warsaw, to receive the Enigma replicas along with all the cryptanalyst information Poland gathered. Without that, it would take an extra 2 to 3 years to break the Enigma Code. By then, Hitler would be in London.
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More on:
http://home.us.net/~encore/Enigma/enigma.html
ENIGMA – Polish gift
Moderator: John W. Howard
- Somosierra
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- Location: POLAND - The Land of Virtue and Valor: "Peior est bello timor ipse belli!"
ENIGMA – Polish gift
APOCALYPSIS IOANNIS 21, 8:
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Timidis autem et incredulis et exsecratis et homicidis et fornicatoribus et veneficis et idololatris et omnibus mendacibus, pars illorum erit in stagno ardenti igne et sulphure, quod est mors secunda.
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Timidis autem et incredulis et exsecratis et homicidis et fornicatoribus et veneficis et idololatris et omnibus mendacibus, pars illorum erit in stagno ardenti igne et sulphure, quod est mors secunda.
- Somosierra
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Much worse is an English movie “Enigma” – there are only one Pole and only one “dark character”.
APOCALYPSIS IOANNIS 21, 8:
--
Timidis autem et incredulis et exsecratis et homicidis et fornicatoribus et veneficis et idololatris et omnibus mendacibus, pars illorum erit in stagno ardenti igne et sulphure, quod est mors secunda.
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Timidis autem et incredulis et exsecratis et homicidis et fornicatoribus et veneficis et idololatris et omnibus mendacibus, pars illorum erit in stagno ardenti igne et sulphure, quod est mors secunda.
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- on "time out"
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Hi Somosierra,
You are absolutely right that the Polish work on the Enigma was the ground work upon which later British developments were based.
However, you have a tendency to bang the drum for Poland over loudly in many of your postings. Nobody knows how long it would have taken to break the Enigma code without Polish groundwork or whether this was the difference between London surviving or falling.
To overstate the case for Poland tends to damage its reputation, not enhance it. Stick to the facts. They make your point better.
Cheers,
Sid
You are absolutely right that the Polish work on the Enigma was the ground work upon which later British developments were based.
However, you have a tendency to bang the drum for Poland over loudly in many of your postings. Nobody knows how long it would have taken to break the Enigma code without Polish groundwork or whether this was the difference between London surviving or falling.
To overstate the case for Poland tends to damage its reputation, not enhance it. Stick to the facts. They make your point better.
Cheers,
Sid
- Somosierra
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Hi Somosierra,
The issue is not false posts, it is mixing hard facts with unverifiable assertions.
There is no doubt that the Polish Enigma contribution was of vital importance to the British war effort.
However, it is impossible to assert with confidence that it prevented London falling to the Germans.
Indeed, it is unlikely that it did so because Enigma decrypts were not vital to the conduct of the Battle of Britain. In fact, Polish fighter pilots were probably more important to preventing a German invasion of Britain than were Enigma decrypts.
Cheers,
Sid.
The issue is not false posts, it is mixing hard facts with unverifiable assertions.
There is no doubt that the Polish Enigma contribution was of vital importance to the British war effort.
However, it is impossible to assert with confidence that it prevented London falling to the Germans.
Indeed, it is unlikely that it did so because Enigma decrypts were not vital to the conduct of the Battle of Britain. In fact, Polish fighter pilots were probably more important to preventing a German invasion of Britain than were Enigma decrypts.
Cheers,
Sid.
- Enrico Cernuschi
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Gentlemen, I'm sorry to break someone dreams of glory but...
"When the war brohe out, however, the Germans made a major change in the machine which put the Poles ot of business"..."It was always a mistery to me that the Polish contingent was not incorporated at Bletchley during the war"..."I can only assume there were security doubts". (From E.H. Hinsley and Alan Stripp "Codebreakers, ed. Oxford University Press, 1993, pg. 92).
The most important "major change" was the introduction of a 4 wheel Enigma machine. In this way the total number of possibile dayly keys was no more 159 million million million but a number 7000000000000000 highter before the mechanism returned to its original position.
A last observation, please. The Polish unfortunate character of that formidable novel which is Enigma by Richard Harris in not a dark one but a dark hero. As the true, original Warsaw government had sentenced in Aug. 1939 "With the Germans we can lose our bodies, with the Russian we would lost our souls".
In 1943, until the Italian armistice, it was legitimate to think that a general peace was going to restore a free and indipendent Poland in the limits of the General Gouvernment with the blessing of Italy, the Vatican, USSR and Germany too. It was a pity things went in an other way. Next time EC
"When the war brohe out, however, the Germans made a major change in the machine which put the Poles ot of business"..."It was always a mistery to me that the Polish contingent was not incorporated at Bletchley during the war"..."I can only assume there were security doubts". (From E.H. Hinsley and Alan Stripp "Codebreakers, ed. Oxford University Press, 1993, pg. 92).
The most important "major change" was the introduction of a 4 wheel Enigma machine. In this way the total number of possibile dayly keys was no more 159 million million million but a number 7000000000000000 highter before the mechanism returned to its original position.
A last observation, please. The Polish unfortunate character of that formidable novel which is Enigma by Richard Harris in not a dark one but a dark hero. As the true, original Warsaw government had sentenced in Aug. 1939 "With the Germans we can lose our bodies, with the Russian we would lost our souls".
In 1943, until the Italian armistice, it was legitimate to think that a general peace was going to restore a free and indipendent Poland in the limits of the General Gouvernment with the blessing of Italy, the Vatican, USSR and Germany too. It was a pity things went in an other way. Next time EC
- Somosierra
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How sad!Enrico Cernuschi wrote:Gentlemen, I'm sorry to break someone dreams of glory but...
"When the war brohe out, however, the Germans made a major change in the machine which put the Poles ot of business"..."It was always a mistery to me that the Polish contingent was not incorporated at Bletchley during the war"..."I can only assume there were security doubts". (From E.H. Hinsley and Alan Stripp "Codebreakers, ed. Oxford University Press, 1993, pg. 92).
The most important "major change" was the introduction of a 4 wheel Enigma machine. In this way the total number of possibile dayly keys was no more 159 million million million but a number 7000000000000000 highter before the mechanism returned to its original position.
A last observation, please. The Polish unfortunate character of that formidable novel which is Enigma by Richard Harris in not a dark one but a dark hero. As the true, original Warsaw government had sentenced in Aug. 1939 "With the Germans we can lose our bodies, with the Russian we would lost our souls".
In 1943, until the Italian armistice, it was legitimate to think that a general peace was going to restore a free and indipendent Poland in the limits of the General Gouvernment with the blessing of Italy, the Vatican, USSR and Germany too. It was a pity things went in an other way. Next time EC
APOCALYPSIS IOANNIS 21, 8:
--
Timidis autem et incredulis et exsecratis et homicidis et fornicatoribus et veneficis et idololatris et omnibus mendacibus, pars illorum erit in stagno ardenti igne et sulphure, quod est mors secunda.
--
Timidis autem et incredulis et exsecratis et homicidis et fornicatoribus et veneficis et idololatris et omnibus mendacibus, pars illorum erit in stagno ardenti igne et sulphure, quod est mors secunda.
- Somosierra
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- Location: POLAND - The Land of Virtue and Valor: "Peior est bello timor ipse belli!"