And so...

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:28 pm

...the sun sets on Feldgrau.

I'm sorry Jason, but I do believe you have taken the wrong direction here. I appreciate all the work you have done for us, but surely, now is the time to hand some power to the more sensible members of our group.

People may differ in opinion greatly, but I have never had any problem in picking out the ones who can be trusted. People are never perfect, but I believe the qualities one must show for a site such as this is integrity, political and personal, and a firm grip on that vaunted sim, "Real Life" (And not the one where you can fly)

The answer here, IMHO, is for more moderators, stricter rules on what sort of behavior, and debate is appropriate for the forum, and finally, for Feldgrau to allow any topic on its forum, safe in the knowledge that its moderation keeps it within moderate boundaries.

Sorry Jason, or the mods, if I have overstepped the mark, please move this to Room 101 if you wish. But I feel it needed said.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:34 pm

Jock, are you in effect saying...people are here because of what it IS, and more of THAT but better policed is the way to go, rather than changing the direction of the forum?

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:38 pm

Hi Phylo,

The very same point hit me as I posted that.

No, I'm saying the internet has changed, and is available to many more people. In my years on Feldgrau, I have seen many new members, some bad, most indifferent, and some great ones, such as yourself.

I propose we embrace the masses, hold them tightly, and slide the knife into the back of those who do not kiss the emperor.

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:43 pm

PS - I'm not sure the moderators can ever control the direction of the forum. It's 2007, and not Soviet Russia. I think the majority decides the direction.

The moderators always have the final say though.

I've got more to say, but I'll leave it to the floor for now.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:43 pm

True, the Internet has changed - and IS changing daily, like any "fashion-driven" commodity - which, let's face it...it is. We're into the second and third generation of websites, with older sites changing WITH fashion or driven BY their users/members. But a fine balance needs to be drawn between the ancient "change for change' sake" problem, and what attracts/keeps that core userbase coming to a particular website.

Jason Pipes · Post by **Jason Pipes** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:10 pm

Huh??

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:13 pm

Jason, I respect you, but I really don't know what to say to that.

I do believe I wasn't speaking gibberish, or 'Foreign', and had put my case forward reasonably well.

And I get a sarcastic "Huh??" from the site owner.

Guess that says it all.

sniper1shot · Post by **sniper1shot** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:26 pm

JOCK:

I think the majority decides the direction

So in this comment you're saying... MOB RULES ??
That is a big NO w/me. If a person can't control themselves what they TYPE on a computer then what type of person are they?
We have all seen a thread generate and then spiral out of control until names are called and the thread is locked, right?

Why do members not type something out.....go get a beer/pop/whatever, come back and re-read what they typed? Then post it!
Chances are, if a post can be misunderstood it definately will be.

stricter rules on what sort of behavior, and debate is appropriate for the forum

It has been posted and updates a few months back.....apparently not everyone has read them.

now is the time to hand some power to the more sensible members of our group.

Um, I for one have now been rubbed the wrong way on this comment JOCK.....who would you consider "more sensible" in your group?? I am curious.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:44 pm

I think the majority decides the direction

Don't forget...technically speaking, the members of this...and any other...forum are "customers". Tthey're here because it has something they want. Feldgrau may not be "perfect", but it suits the people who frequent it and use it for whatever reasons they do.

There comes a point when an entity like Feldgrau is SO big in itself and built on so large a history....that it becomes too "dangerous" to change its direction - because both it AND its users/customers/members have grown into the shape they are with it. At present its SO large in numbers and scope that it satisfies ALL its members in SOME way or another. But there ARE people doing research merrily posting away, despite all the pontificating about the site "dying".

Feldgrau has a certain "identity" and people are here both because of what they can get from the site AND because of that "identity", the personality and flavour of the site. As Feldgrau has become bigger, it has become "more of the same"...

...and if you change TOO many of the factors and directions that GIVE it that flavour and identity, you risk loosing people simply because it has moved away from what they want and what has them here.

The solution is finding those factors that you CAN change, to START it moving in the direction you EVENTUALLY want. Think of a site this old with this large a membership as a quarter-mile-long supertanker. You can turn the wheel...but remember it's going to take MILES to change direction.

Meanwhile, if there are problems you deal with the problems as problems not as trends. Because looking at a bunch of people loosing the rag with each other as a trend is giving problem people and problem subjects too much credence and too big a grandstand.

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:52 pm

I'm away to go to bed, and I'll come back to this tomorrow,

But, Sniper, that comment was badly phrased in retrospect. By no means do I think the current mods are doing a bad job, and I am glad you are all here, doing such a good job. I think my affinity with David and Tom can attest that.

I did not mean to offend you, I only meant that "time to share power...".

I believe Feldgrau needs more hands at the pumps. I'm sorry to offend you man.

I'll be back to this th'morn.

Luftman129 · Post by **Luftman129** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:21 pm

My compliments to the admins and mods. I can understand how hard it is to run a site of this caliber. I am a mod at another forum where the admin will let anybody post their opinion but if that individual seems to go way out there in Crazyland, we'll reply to his post asking why he thinks this or that. And if he/she can't redeem themselves with a good answer, we'll notify the admin and let him know that this person is completely nuts. Most of the time, the admin won't act on it since the poster hasn't done anything to damage the forum. But once he/she does, it's instant banishment.

Jason, on the front of posting your real name as your user name, I have never, as long as I have been on the internet, used my real name as my user name. I have personal reasons for doing so. Particularly former colleagues or friends could see my name on this site and think that I am a Neo-Nazi which I can assure eveyone I am not.

Thanks,
Chris

Jason Pipes · Post by **Jason Pipes** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:23 pm

I was leaving work and didn't have time to respond more fully. I'm confused by the tone of the original message, thus my "huh" remark.

I don't see how/why/where/when the site is "dying". If anything it's getting bigger and better every day. The main issue I see is about certain members of the forum taking advantage of lax policing of messages and threads and not clamping down on posters that constantly are at odds with one another.

Feldgrau is not going to "change" it has been and will always be about serious research on WWII German forces. As long as I am alive and there are people willing to support the site in some small way and as long as I can continue to afford it, Feldgrau will remain. But some things do need to change from time to time. We changed the forum layout many years ago and boy did that cause a stir. When is the last time someone complained they old format was "better"? We changed the site name back in 1999-2000 or so. Anyone miss "German Armed Forces in WWII"? We changed our layout many times, and will do so again as well. Things change. But things remain the same as well. Consider it growing if you will, not changing.

What is going to change though is the mods will grow in number, topics will be watched a little more closely, stricter controls will be placed on what can be posted in certain forum sections, and most importantly, Feldgrau will no longer exist as a platform for folks of any calling or political viewpoint to hound one another in endless debates and flame wars! It has become clear certain people simply don't agree and don't get along. Fine. No one else cares or needs to get in the middle of it. If that keeps up we'll simply create a boxing match section and send every post certain people make to that area, never to be seen again.

Seriously, we are mostly all adults and this is a research site. Time and again I've requested that folks keep it civil. If people can't, they will be dealt with. First by being asked not to respond to certain members.

If someone is not a problem poster I don't see any of this as an issue. And certainly this doesn't indicate a major change in the foundation of the site.

Jock · Post by **Jock** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:36 pm

Jason, I did not mean to disrespect you, but your post seems to agree with my point of view. I'll admit I do try to put my own pseudo-literary slant on my posts.

I've enjoyed Feldgrau all these years because of the extensive site, the forum where I can find out the little things, or feel part of a community of like minded individuals.

Feldgrau needs more mods, you are one hundred percent right, man.

Dragunov · Post by **Dragunov** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:13 pm

I don't see how/why/where/when the site is "dying". If anything it's getting bigger and better every day. The main issue I see is about certain members of the forum taking advantage of lax policing of messages and threads and not clamping down on posters that constantly are at odds with one another.

well, that's not how i see it... sure, you get more new members, but how many of them are regular posters? and then, there are the regulars that have packed their bags because of the ruckus. and, i might be wrong, but i think business has died down a tad since i came at least... in the areas i venture in often, the weapons section and general military section, there's far less activity then before... not sure if it has anything to do with the 'ruckus' though. but this place has always been relatively 'quiet', and that's one reason i somewhat prefer it from AHF, we're a community, and i know many of the regulars here. sorta like a villiage versus a city...

Why do members not type something out.....go get a beer/pop/whatever, come back and re-read what they typed? Then post it!
Chances are, if a post can be misunderstood it definately will be.

hahaha... can't...help...it!

but's it's so true... as you've proven to me

sorry...

Marc Binazzi · Post by **Marc Binazzi** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:14 am

Jock wrote: I do believe I wasn't speaking gibberish, or French

Thanks for showing so much respect for the large number of French contributors on this Forum!!