Highly Theoretical--Commerce Raiding!
- krichter33
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I know for the Emden there were quite a few warships looking for her in the Indian ocean. As far as the others though I'm not really sure. With the regular merchant auxillary cruisers there were always a few ships out looking for them, once of course they discovered there was indeed a raider at sea. But as far as actual numbers, I don't really know.
Klaus Richter
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Hi Phylo,
I don't think specific "hunts" were generally mounted for individual merchant raiders. Instead a number of cruisers or armed merchant cruisers were permanently stationed at key points on the ocean, from where they would respond to local sightings.
(For example, the Simonstown naval base in South Africa usually maintained at least one cruiser and a couple of armed merchant cruisers permanently off the River Plate and in the whaling grounds of the South Atlantic, with another usually refitting.)
From memory, I seem to recall that there were about 30 Royal Navy armed merchant cruisers alone. This is about twice as many as the number of merchant raiders used by the Germans in total. The maximum number actually at sea at any one time was probably less than half this.
Unarmed blockade runners also provoked the creation of a more lightly armed RN class, the Ocrean Boarding Vessel, of which I think there were about 15.
A good source for total numbers is Conway's book on the navies of WWII.
Cheers,
Sid.
I don't think specific "hunts" were generally mounted for individual merchant raiders. Instead a number of cruisers or armed merchant cruisers were permanently stationed at key points on the ocean, from where they would respond to local sightings.
(For example, the Simonstown naval base in South Africa usually maintained at least one cruiser and a couple of armed merchant cruisers permanently off the River Plate and in the whaling grounds of the South Atlantic, with another usually refitting.)
From memory, I seem to recall that there were about 30 Royal Navy armed merchant cruisers alone. This is about twice as many as the number of merchant raiders used by the Germans in total. The maximum number actually at sea at any one time was probably less than half this.
Unarmed blockade runners also provoked the creation of a more lightly armed RN class, the Ocrean Boarding Vessel, of which I think there were about 15.
A good source for total numbers is Conway's book on the navies of WWII.
Cheers,
Sid.
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Hey guys,
I have just finished reading this thread, and I am curious as to if there are any pictures floating around the Web, that show the "Penguin," (aka the successful German commerce-raider)? If any of you readers, of this particular post, have either a pic or know where to find one of the "Penguin," that would be great!
Cheers,
Matt B.
I have just finished reading this thread, and I am curious as to if there are any pictures floating around the Web, that show the "Penguin," (aka the successful German commerce-raider)? If any of you readers, of this particular post, have either a pic or know where to find one of the "Penguin," that would be great!
Cheers,
Matt B.
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Hi Matt B.
I have just looked at the above link.
It would appear to have largely been pirated from "German Raiders of World War II" by Karl August Muggenthaler, to the point that it is probably in breach of copyright!
I would recommend buying Muggenthaler's book over the internet. You can pick up a paperback copy for a few pounds on Amazon.co.uk or Abebooks.
Cheers,
Sid.
I have just looked at the above link.
It would appear to have largely been pirated from "German Raiders of World War II" by Karl August Muggenthaler, to the point that it is probably in breach of copyright!
I would recommend buying Muggenthaler's book over the internet. You can pick up a paperback copy for a few pounds on Amazon.co.uk or Abebooks.
Cheers,
Sid.
By 1941 some 15 had been sunk. They were eventually considered too vunerable for ocean escort and blockading work, and began to be withdrawn. By the beginning of 1943 only 17 were left in service, and a year later only 8 remained. By May 1944 only 1 remained (the damaged Asturias) laid up in Freetown. They were converted to troopships etcsid guttridge wrote:Hi Guys,
Apparently the Royal Navy converted 56 Armed Merchant Cruisers
Sid
Source: HT Lenton's British & Empire Warships of WW2
Regards
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
And so as I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the tricolour I must fear evil, For I am but mortal and mortals can only die
And so as I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the tricolour I must fear evil, For I am but mortal and mortals can only die
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Aside from the two German crusiers that raided in the Atlantic there was a less well known Jaoanese crusier raid into the Indian ocean. John Costello in his 'The Pacific War 1941 - 1945 mentions briefly that when the Japanese sent their carriers into the Indian Ocean in the spring of 1942 some crusiers operated independnatly hunting merchant ships. Costello claim approximately 100,000 tons sunk by these over a couple weeks.
This was uncharacteristic of the Japanese navy. Their naval doctrine called for concentration against the enemy warships. Attacking enemy cargo ships was a very low priority.
This was uncharacteristic of the Japanese navy. Their naval doctrine called for concentration against the enemy warships. Attacking enemy cargo ships was a very low priority.
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Hi Andy,
The AMCs were only ever a stop-gap measure in the absence of sufficient dedicated warships. They were primarily designed to intercept unarmed blockade runners, few of which were left by 1943. With landings in Europe imminent, most were converted to troop transports.
The AMCs were disadvantaged relative to German raiders in several ways. They were usually much larger ships and therefore much bigger targets. They also tended to be armed with less effective main guns with less range. Their advantage was usually a superior turn of speed that allowed two of them two survive damaging encounters with German raiders. Their main problem was that most of them were employed on the Northern Patrol around Iceland where they were vulnerable to attack by U-boats, German warship raids and air attack.
Cheers,
Sid
The AMCs were only ever a stop-gap measure in the absence of sufficient dedicated warships. They were primarily designed to intercept unarmed blockade runners, few of which were left by 1943. With landings in Europe imminent, most were converted to troop transports.
The AMCs were disadvantaged relative to German raiders in several ways. They were usually much larger ships and therefore much bigger targets. They also tended to be armed with less effective main guns with less range. Their advantage was usually a superior turn of speed that allowed two of them two survive damaging encounters with German raiders. Their main problem was that most of them were employed on the Northern Patrol around Iceland where they were vulnerable to attack by U-boats, German warship raids and air attack.
Cheers,
Sid
Re: Highly Theoretical--Commerce Raiding!
Hello to all ; just a complement...........................
Three "tools" of Commerce Raiding!.
From Admiral Scheer: "HSK8 Schiff 41" (Kormoran) was first seen on March 16, 1941 at 0708 hours. A submarine was observed diving. Twenty minutes later, she reappeared again. She was U 124. The U-boat was carrying parts needed to repair the pocket battleship's worn radar and encryption material. The three units met at 08:15 hours at position 03 00 N., 31 00 W (Grid ER89). However, the "Scheer" was under way again at 12:50 hours, heading 324º, speed 18 knots. Radio silence was broken at 7:37 p.m. to inform the Naval Warfare Staff that the "Scheer" was on its way home.
On board U 124 the Kptlt. Georg-Wilhelm Schulz; IWO Oblt.z.S. Johann Mohr; IIWO Oblt.z.S. Werner Henke; ObStrm. Wilhelm Gerlach; Wachoffizierschüler Fähnrich zur See Dieter Bornkessel.
Sources: https://www.history.navy.mil/research/l ... cheer.html
https://historisches-marinearchiv.de/pr ... var2=wert2
https://www.abc.es/cultura/20140726/abc ... 21228.html
https://www.ebay.de/itm/U-Boot-U-124-Be ... 0037.m2107
Cheers. Raúl M .
Three "tools" of Commerce Raiding!.
From Admiral Scheer: "HSK8 Schiff 41" (Kormoran) was first seen on March 16, 1941 at 0708 hours. A submarine was observed diving. Twenty minutes later, she reappeared again. She was U 124. The U-boat was carrying parts needed to repair the pocket battleship's worn radar and encryption material. The three units met at 08:15 hours at position 03 00 N., 31 00 W (Grid ER89). However, the "Scheer" was under way again at 12:50 hours, heading 324º, speed 18 knots. Radio silence was broken at 7:37 p.m. to inform the Naval Warfare Staff that the "Scheer" was on its way home.
On board U 124 the Kptlt. Georg-Wilhelm Schulz; IWO Oblt.z.S. Johann Mohr; IIWO Oblt.z.S. Werner Henke; ObStrm. Wilhelm Gerlach; Wachoffizierschüler Fähnrich zur See Dieter Bornkessel.
Sources: https://www.history.navy.mil/research/l ... cheer.html
https://historisches-marinearchiv.de/pr ... var2=wert2
https://www.abc.es/cultura/20140726/abc ... 21228.html
https://www.ebay.de/itm/U-Boot-U-124-Be ... 0037.m2107
Cheers. Raúl M .
- Attachments
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- U 124, «Kormoran» and the Panzershiff «Admiral Scheer» in the Atlantic.....................
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- U 124 seen from Admiral Scheer, March 16, 1941...................................
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Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.