Hi Metatrone,
Surely the only personal bravery involved there was regarding Hitler, not the enemy?
Besides, if anyone was going to get away with disobeying Hitler it was Hausser, not an Army general. For example, look what happened to the general who saved his division from encirclement by withdrawing from the Kerch peninsula in December 1941.
Cheers,
Sid.
Bravest of the brave.....
In the British army, if you receive the Victoria Cross I think most people would agree that it was a brave deed that won it. However in the Third Reich era the Knights cross was not always won for individual bravery. As most people have already said, how do you assess bravery? If you could view every action in every battle then you could say who truly was the bravest but that can never happen. It would probably end up being a lowly s.s. man who got an ek2 for whatever he did or someone whose action was not even noticed. I know of an s.s. man who received an ek2 for helping wounded comrades under fire and a British squaddie who got mentioned in dispatches for the same thing in Iraq. For me anyone who is willing to risk their life for a comrade off their own back is brave.
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phylo_roadking
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There was one winner who when presented his award by the monarch, had to be led forward by the arm, and couldn't string two words together. When later enquiring had the man been injured, they were told - no he's a moron, who unless given orders would trip over his own feet. On the day someone had told him to attack the enemy and he did - and just didn't stop!In the British army, if you receive the Victoria Cross I think most people would agree that it was a brave deed that won it
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Hi:
"Bravest of the brave" as far as I learned is only a term I saw in papers or reports and don't mean that much to me. When desperate or in seemingly hopeless situations we are all more or less brave or perhaps only stubborn.
What I really consider brave were comrades, I don't remember their names but can still see their faces, who stayed on to cover our retreat knowing full well what to expect. In my time in Russia for weeks and month we were making our way back West. Usually keeping Ivan at bay during the day and pulling back to somewhat prepared positions during the night. Those unable to make it, wounded or frost bite just stayed on to buy us a bit more time. Nobody ever heard about them, why they never received their deserved attention. Without ever being asked they gave their life for the rest of us.
Did they get a RK or even honorable mention ? Hell no, maybe sometimes the Spiess got around to send a letter.
That's how I see it.
Gerhard
"Bravest of the brave" as far as I learned is only a term I saw in papers or reports and don't mean that much to me. When desperate or in seemingly hopeless situations we are all more or less brave or perhaps only stubborn.
What I really consider brave were comrades, I don't remember their names but can still see their faces, who stayed on to cover our retreat knowing full well what to expect. In my time in Russia for weeks and month we were making our way back West. Usually keeping Ivan at bay during the day and pulling back to somewhat prepared positions during the night. Those unable to make it, wounded or frost bite just stayed on to buy us a bit more time. Nobody ever heard about them, why they never received their deserved attention. Without ever being asked they gave their life for the rest of us.
Did they get a RK or even honorable mention ? Hell no, maybe sometimes the Spiess got around to send a letter.
That's how I see it.
Gerhard
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Jan-Hendrik
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kingtiger88
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sid guttridge
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Hi J-H,
Very probably, given the poor average quality of Wellington's multi-national army and the relatively high quality of Napoleon's larger, all French army.
However, Wellington's great achievement was to not only keep his heterogeneous force in the field under sustained French attack for most of the day, but to still have it in good enough condition to conduct a general advance at the end of it. Blucher was, indeed, decisive, but his army was much more cohesive than Wellington's and a surer instrument.
Cheers,
Sid.
Very probably, given the poor average quality of Wellington's multi-national army and the relatively high quality of Napoleon's larger, all French army.
However, Wellington's great achievement was to not only keep his heterogeneous force in the field under sustained French attack for most of the day, but to still have it in good enough condition to conduct a general advance at the end of it. Blucher was, indeed, decisive, but his army was much more cohesive than Wellington's and a surer instrument.
Cheers,
Sid.
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kingtiger88
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This indeed is the WSS topic............
one thing however very much emerges out...........many or most acts of bravery occur to help our own comrades (unless one had the neck ache or equivalent)........I remember the movie 'Black Hawk Down' in which Erich Bana as the Delta Sgt tells Ranger Sgt Josh Harnet that we all fight for our comrades.....not that everyone is a war junkie............Yes I realize that it would be next to impossible to justify the bravest of the brave since facts may not be fully available..............
Since we are dealing with the Waffen SS here..........my personal choice would be someone who has been through all flashpoints and managed to survive.........yes it would be wonderful if he would in between have done deeds above the call of duty. This by no means degenerates the sacrifice of the countless soldiers who lost their lives...........
But would still like you all to list your favourite WSS soldier who you think fits the bill!!
thanx
one thing however very much emerges out...........many or most acts of bravery occur to help our own comrades (unless one had the neck ache or equivalent)........I remember the movie 'Black Hawk Down' in which Erich Bana as the Delta Sgt tells Ranger Sgt Josh Harnet that we all fight for our comrades.....not that everyone is a war junkie............Yes I realize that it would be next to impossible to justify the bravest of the brave since facts may not be fully available..............
Since we are dealing with the Waffen SS here..........my personal choice would be someone who has been through all flashpoints and managed to survive.........yes it would be wonderful if he would in between have done deeds above the call of duty. This by no means degenerates the sacrifice of the countless soldiers who lost their lives...........
But would still like you all to list your favourite WSS soldier who you think fits the bill!!
thanx
Servus,
My father told me a story of a SS- Oberjunker in the TK Division. He was not selected to attend the leaders course at a Junkerschule but wather stayed with the Division at Demjansk. Apparently he was a fluent russian speaker and in order to prove himself worthy of being an officer, he used to go out nights and cross the lines. He would sometimes bring back prisoners and some times just intel. And then, one time , he just never returned from one of his nightly forays. They never found out what happened to him.
Just a story I heard from my dad.
Regards,
Helmut
My father told me a story of a SS- Oberjunker in the TK Division. He was not selected to attend the leaders course at a Junkerschule but wather stayed with the Division at Demjansk. Apparently he was a fluent russian speaker and in order to prove himself worthy of being an officer, he used to go out nights and cross the lines. He would sometimes bring back prisoners and some times just intel. And then, one time , he just never returned from one of his nightly forays. They never found out what happened to him.
Just a story I heard from my dad.
Regards,
Helmut
