Charkov March 1943 TOE & OOB

[JASGripen]

If anyone got any information on the involved divisions I would be glad if you could share it. I got the German, but just for check write them down if you got them. I would be interested in the whole 4 Pz army's composition (not in total detail of course).

When it comes to TOE I would like to know what vehicles the SS Pz corps had, and the same for their USSR counterpart.

I might do some more research in the area if the empirical realities are beneficial. But it depends on the answers of yours.


Thanks in advance!

[Curious Volksgrenadier]

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[cpa95]

Hello, for the OOB of the ger 1st (south and later east of charkow Feb+Mar43) und 4th Panzerarmee (Charkow in Feb/Mar43):

http://www.diedeutschewehrmacht.de/Kriegsgliederung.htm
There you can find also the OOB of each division, which was engaged.

Greetings
Thomas

[JASGripen]

You´re the man!

But what about the USSR's forces? There are always a great knowledge about the German side from all semi professional buffs, but the knowledge about the other side is often less impressing. Anyone?

[von Salza]

Hi JASGripen,

See links attached in Russian from the RKKA site of the two maps for the period you need.

If my scant Russian is anything to go by the OOB is, from North to South in the immediate vicinity of Kharkov

40th Army

183 Rifle Div
309 Rifle Div
340 Rifle Div
100 Rifle Div

69th Army

219 Rifle Div
37 Rifle Brigade
270 Rifle Div
180 Rifle Div

3rd Tank Army

15 Mech Corps
48 Guards Rifle Div
160 Rifle Div
184 Rifle Div
62 Guards Rifle Div
12 Mech Corps
111 Rifle Div
6 Guards Cavalry Corps

6th Army

350 Rifle Div
172 Rifle Div
6 Rifle Div
106 Rifle Brigade
267 Rifle Div

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/maps ... eb1_19.jpg

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/maps ... _Mar21.jpg

Regards

David

[Epaminondas]

If you are looking for the nuts and bolts actual equipment of the units engaged, Nipe's Last Victory in Russia mentions the equipment and manpower statis of many of the german divisions.

Nothing systematic however; but he does cite to the archives, so if you had some time, you should be able to find the documents he uses...

[donwhite]

JAsgripen,
East View publications has 'Boevoi sostav sovetskoi armii' on microfiche which gives a very detailed (Corps, Divisions, Independent Brigades, regiments, battalions etc) order of battle for all Soviets Fronts for the 1st of each month. Except for the odd book publication, I've yet to see its equivalent for the German OB. Alternatively there is a Russian Website that has the same data in 3x monthly quarters (Jan, April, August etc).
The website is

http://www.victory.mi.ru/rkka/oob

Cheers

[Morden]

http://www.diedeutschewehrmacht.de/Kriegsgliederung.htm

This page is full of mistakes. I wouldn't recommend as a source of OOB e.g. XXXXVIII PzK. has in its structure (according to that site) in March 1943 3 and 11 PzD. which is not true - it should be 6 and 11 PzD.

OOB can be found in Nipe's "Last victory in Russia" but as mentioned before not in easily accesible way and in Glantz's "From the Don to the Dnepr". The latter is THE BOOK when it comes to 3rd and 4th battles of Kharkow. In the Appendices there are detailed OOB for both sides. As an example here is state for 2nd February 1943:

Voronesh Front - CO gen. Golikow

40A gen. K.S Moskalenko (90.000 soldiers, 100 tanks)
100, 107, 183, 303, 305, 309, 340 ID
25 Guards ID
129 IB
4 TK (later 5GuTK).
116, 192 PzB

69A gen. M.I. Kazakow (40.000 soldiers, 50 tanks)
161, 180, 219, 270 ID
37 IB
137 TB
292 Tank regiment

3 TA gen. P. S. Rybalko (57.000 soldiers, 165 tanks)
48, 62 GuID
111, 184 ID
12, 15 TK
179, 201 TB


Morden

[cpa95]

This page is full of mistakes. I wouldn't recommend as a source of OOB e.g. XXXXVIII PzK. has in its structure (according to that site) in March 1943 3 and 11 PzD. which is not true - it should be 6 and 11 PzD.

Errare humanum est
You are right with 6. PD on 4.3.1943.
I like this book from Glantz, but for the operational view of the german side, Schwarz (Die Stabilisierung der Ostfront nach Stalingrad) ist also a good book.

Greetings
Thomas

[JASGripen]

Thanks all, you are of great help. I have Nipes book now and have checked the online resources, with all pro's and con's.

The USSR part is still abit in the dark though. Thanks!

[GaryD]

According to Frontovaya Illyustratsiya, Battle for Kharkov February-March 1943, quoting from archival sources, on 28 Feb. 1943 the 3 TA's tank strength was:

12 TC - 1 KV, 24 T-34, 5 T-60, 5 T-70, total - 35
15 TC - 14 T-34, 1 T-60, 4 T-70, total 19
179 TB - 12 T-34, 3 T-60, total 15

On 17 February it was:

201 TB - 14 Valentine
12 TC - 1 KV, 32 T-34, 7 T-60, 6 T-70, total 46
15 TC - 18 T-34, 2 T-60, 5 T-70, total 25
179 TB - 1 KV, 22 T-34, 2 T-60, total 25

Losses of 3 TA from 20 January - 18 February

Sunk (in rivers, etc.) - 4 T-34, 1 T-60/70
Destroyed by artillery fire (tank, AT guns, etc.) - 1 KV, 27 T-34, 6 T-60/70
Destroyed by air attacks - 1 T-34, 1 T-60/70
Other losses - 1 T-34, 3 T-60/70

According to the book "3rd Guards Tank Army", by A.M. Zvartsev, Moscow, 1982, on 2 March 3 TA had 30 operational tanks and no gas. On 16 March 3 TA had 22 tanks in service.

According to the book "Marshal Rybalko", by S.I. Mel'nikov, Kiev, 1984, sometime around 20-22 February 3 TA had 96 tanks and 1/2 a refill of fuel. 97 TB (12 TC) had 6 tanks, 120 motorized riflemen, and one AA battery.

According to the book "The Fastov Guards", by N.G. Nersesyan, Moscow, 1964, a history of the 106 TB/53GTB (part of 12 TC), on 3 March 106 TB had 11 tanks in service.

[Panzeralex]

Some additional:
on 1 March 1943 3 TA's tank strength was 105 combat-ready tanks.
On 1 March 1943 18 TK (attached 3 TA) was only 6 combat-ready tanks.

best regards,
Panzeralex

[GaryD]

Some additional:
on 1 March 1943 3 TA's tank strength was 105 combat-ready tanks.
On 1 March 1943 18 TK (attached 3 TA) was only 6 combat-ready tanks.

Source?

Wasn't 18 TC part of Mobile Group Popov, which was fighting far to the south-east of 3 TA, and only became part of 3 TA on 10 March?

[Panzeralex]

I have mistaken, 18 TK was attached 3 TA on 10.3.43.
Source:
Archival document.
Opisanie boevyh deystvii 3 TA for February-March 1943.

Best regards,
Panzeralex

[GaryD]

Source:
Archival document.
Opisanie boevyh deystvii 3 TA for February-March 1943.

Can you scan it?