Allied Air Raids

[Herr Doktor]

In general terms, the German people supported Hitler and the National Socialist government. The Army supported him, too - ever since Rohm was disposed of. And the industrialists as well. Hitler could not have remained in power for long without the Army, the wealthy, and ultimately the people (generally) being behind him. Too bad for them. Same goes for the war.

That is who "The Germans" were, my friend.

These civilians where mostly women and children...did they deserve it?

No, none of those poor souls deserved it, especially civilians. On either side. Too bad the German people chose Hitler and the Nazis, and followed them down the path to war and destruction.

Ever hear of an SS officer named Franz Stangl? Do you know his story?

The power of choosing between good and evil is within reach of all.

HD

[M.H.]

In general terms, the German people supported Hitler and the National Socialist government. The Army supported him, too - ever since Rohm was disposed of. And the industrialists as well. Hitler could not have remained in power for long without the Army, the wealthy, and ultimately the people (generally) being behind him. Too bad for them. Same goes for the war.

That is who "The Germans" were, my friend.

These civilians where mostly women and children...did they deserve it?

No, none of those poor souls deserved it, especially civilians. On either side. Too bad the German people chose Hitler and the Nazis, and followed them down the path to war and destruction.
Ever hear of an SS officer named Franz Stangl? Do you know his story?
The power of choosing between good and evil is within reach of all.
HD

I bow out here...your arguments are nothing but lame tries of apologizing
what isn't to apologize. If you can't find it in yourself to acknowledge a crime against humanity then that is sad but mostly YOUR problem.

I'm glad that today there are lot's of people on both sides who recognize
that such things happened on all sides and try to make amends and reach out to each other!

Have a nice day!

[Herr Doktor]

(And it is highly interesting that you quote Adolf Hitler to somehow strenghten your argument!)

Yes, of course! Hitler said that in the mid-30's as he was secretly building up his armies for aggression, while at the same time, maintaining that Germany would abide by the territorial clauses of the Versailles Treaty, etc.

"He who lights the torch of war in Europe can wish for nothing but chaos."

Quite true, and very ironic - considering Adolf Hitler himself said it. Another ironic quote from Hitler: "Give me four years, and you won't recognize your towns!" Many towns were indeed unrecognizable after being leveled by bombs... not what Herr Hitler intended, but true nonetheless.

Perhaps such irony is lost on you.

Agree to disagree? Fair enough. I never said that bombing Dresden should have been carried out, etc. Go back and read my posts here. YOU and your friends made those claims. I simply said that the Germans brought that upon themselves.

I will have an excellent day, sir. Many thanks.

HD

[M.H.]

Perhaps such irony is lost on you.

HD

I'm a german...I don't do humour and irony!

[Herr Doktor]

Clearly!

HD

[Ubersoldat]

The fact remains, its not ethical to bomb civilians into oblivion (especially when u know ur attacking a civilian city!!). We're talking here about Germany and the Allies, but the same could be said for America's attack on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Japan was on the brink of economic collapse and here the "Mighty Americans" come flying over with the tune of Ride of the Valkyries following them and destroying all.

Most Americans and Brits are quickly to point fingers in direction of the Germans, but what is the difference between a Holocaust that took four years and one that took place in 15 seconds?

The problem we have to accept is that the Allies knew they were bombing civilians, unfortunately no compensation will be given to the Germans, for they were unfortunate enough to choose a führer that promised them economic successes and to once more build up the pride of the nation the Treaty of Versailles so heartfully destroyed. The reason I think for the total annilation of some German cities such as Dresden, without even a biplane to provide resistance (as the Luftwaffe ceased to exist as early as 1944) was that the resources were available to dispose of at the Allied side. They had to get rid of it. Either that or sit with war debt, and oh my we cant have that!! That might threaten democracy, right Mr. Roosevelt? Would u mind and tell us ur perspective on DEMOCRACY?

Instead of the Germans still constantly paying for the Holocaust, cant the Americans or the Brits at least help out a dying nation? Germany is dying. If u drive thru Munich u can still see the old flagposts attached to the old buildings, but with no flags. I can imagine that swastikas used to hang from there. But now... nothing at all. Not even an EU flag. Why not? Its considered nationalism. Looks like the day has come when one cant even be proud anymore of ur own nation. Isn't that what life is mostly about? Pride? Its very sad to see our world succombing to that which others have set up for us.

[Landser]

Herr Doctor

Have you ever thought that without the dictate there would have been NO AH and NO WWII-maybe>?

Since Versailles was the catalyst of it why do you like to dissmiss the consequences so easy.

BTW you have not answered my question about, let's say your countries behavior,in case faced with anything like the V/D.

Your assesments show a very Victord Justice mentallity, like "how can you ever question our integrity etc".By name calling and insulting others with shaky arguments don't make your stand any more plausible.

[Pirx]

Most Americans and Brits are quickly to point fingers in direction of the Germans, but what is the difference between a Holocaust that took four years and one that took place in 15 seconds?

U don't know? I think u don't know what holocaust was. Or u just don't want to know.

[Stalingrad]

I've met people saying that the german children who died in the allied bombing raids deserved to die... HOW CAN YOU THINK THAT WAY?! Every time I hear this I ask them this question, and the answer is mostly "because they were evil Nazis"... You can't blame a child for what the generation above him/her has done... Well many children in the Third Reich were beliving in a German victory, they were raised in a national socialist way(Im not saying all children were), and then it was the Jungfolk, HJ and all that... Who filled them whit propaganda and brainwashed them whit words of German victory and talking bad about the "Untermenchen"... But that does not give anyone the ritght to kill them.. I know a lot of people suffering from bad memories of there erly years, when they saw body parts spred wide, buring corpses, buildings made into ruins of the bombs, all the dead people laying on the ground an the terrible smell from burned flesh and hair... So as I said before: I can't understand how people can think it is right to kill children for what the generation above them did..

[Pirx]

Nobody deserves to die at war.
But i never agree that bombardment of any city is the same what holocaust was! No way!
I never agree that wehrmacht soldiers were the same heroes in september 1939 like polish soldiers! Germans were agresors, Poles defenders of fatherland.
Policeman who is shooting to criminal is hero, criminal who is shooting to policeman is not.

[Ubersoldat]

I apologize for offending u Pix, i meant it simply as sarcasm. i do indeed know the difference, but lately most of society has made it to seem similar.

[Pirx]

I i do indeed know the difference, but lately most of society has made it to seem similar.

Sad but true.

[Rosselsprung]

Prix,

I'm against the collective labeling of entire armies or countries. Heroism is an individual quality, and to use an American definition, doing something above and beyond the call of duty. The Wehrmacht that invaded Poland in 1939 was not heroic. But some soldiers were. The German that runs across the battlefield to save a wounded comrade is just as heroic as the Pole who does the same thing. I would be careful calling the entire Polish Army heroic, because no army is, no matter how much the media today wants it to be.

As for the question about Allied Air Raids, it matters what the targets were. If the target was an armaments plant, oil refinery, rail yard or anything industrial or military, it is a valid target and civillian casualties are not the intention. However, the senseless terror bombing, the most obvious case being Dresden, in my opinion, is wrong and while not on the same level as the Holocaust, still quite evil.

[Commissar D, the Evil]

Hi Guys! I take an admittedly simplistic view of this:

Bombing a military target in a city may be a necessity of war, but bombing a city simply to terrorize the population or bombing a city without taking measures to insure that civilian casualties are minimalized is simply morally wrong, no matter who does it.

Also, until recently, the technological development of bombing methods was so unsophisticated that it created a situation wherein civilian casualties were
likely.

Best,
~D, the EviL

[Klaus Yurk]

I'm a german...I don't do humour and irony!

What a crock! I'm ethnically German...and I've professionally written humor for years. From fairly serious publications to JUGGS magazine. I currently even have a stage comedy scheduled to begin production next year at a theatre in Baltimore, MD.

So don't give me that "German" cr*p.

On the other hand, it is true that Fascists, Communists, Islamic Extremists, Rabid Feminists, Gord worshippers, Snake Handlers, Joe Boo worshippers, and "true believers" of any stripe have no sense of humor. You wouldn't be one of them thar, would ya, Bubba? Or is that, Herr Bubba?

Topicwise, I agree with our venerable moderator, the Commissar of the wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah, that ever humble paragon of virtue, David, "B*gus D*ckus", Clarke! (Sorry DCC, the evil of Monty Python just entered my soul and would not leave! Not my fault )

Klaus