Hello,
I'm looking for any info regarding German Pionierlandungsboot. Where can I found technical data, phtoos[?!] and any fates of the ships. Or at least number of vessels produced with given type. I'm aware of the pages at feldgrau.com but any other net source or book?! TIA
Best wishes,
crolick
Pionierlandungsboote
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ptdockyard
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I can look this up for you, but here is an earlier post:
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ht=corsica
I have some pictures, too.
The history of all these can be found in Groener's "Die Deutschen Kriegschiffe 1815-1945" in Volume 6 or 7. There are drawings of all types of this craft.
Another great book with pictures of these as gunboats is Randolph Kugler's " Das Landungswesen im Deutschland sind 1900"
Dave G.
The PT Dockyard
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ht=corsica
I have some pictures, too.
The history of all these can be found in Groener's "Die Deutschen Kriegschiffe 1815-1945" in Volume 6 or 7. There are drawings of all types of this craft.
Another great book with pictures of these as gunboats is Randolph Kugler's " Das Landungswesen im Deutschland sind 1900"
Dave G.
The PT Dockyard
Dave Gregory
The PT Dockyard
The PT Dockyard
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ptdockyard
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Kugler's work is hard to find everywhere.
The string on Corsica had a list. The "L-boats" are Pioneerlandungsboote.
Fl.B- Air sea rescue boats
SF- Siebel Ferry
I Boats- Infantrielandungsboot
09.09.: 4 SF
10.09.: 5 SF
11.09.: 5 SF, 2 R-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
12.09.: 6 SF, 6 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats
13.09.: 6 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
14.09.: 5 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
15.09.: 4 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
16.09.: 6 SF, 9 MFP, 10 I-boats, 1 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
The string on Corsica had a list. The "L-boats" are Pioneerlandungsboote.
Fl.B- Air sea rescue boats
SF- Siebel Ferry
I Boats- Infantrielandungsboot
09.09.: 4 SF
10.09.: 5 SF
11.09.: 5 SF, 2 R-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
12.09.: 6 SF, 6 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats
13.09.: 6 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
14.09.: 5 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
15.09.: 4 SF, 11 MFP, 10 I-boats, 3 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
16.09.: 6 SF, 9 MFP, 10 I-boats, 1 L-boats, 3 Fl.B.-boats
Dave Gregory
The PT Dockyard
The PT Dockyard
Hello,
As I'm deeply interested in the Axis losses during Sardinia and Corsica evacuation in IX.43 I have preapared some summary. It is based on two topics from this forum: Naval fighting off Bastia, September 9th 1943 and Origin of 15 steamers used by Germans to evacuate Corsica? as well as on my private knowledge. Please fell free to add new info and to correct my mistakes if spotted:
Sardinia
10.IX.43
- Italian torpedo boat Aliseo sunk near Bastia in naval battle German sub chasers UJ 2203, UJ 2219 and MFPs F 366*, F 387, F 459**, F 612**, F 623.
* in the begining of the topic Enrico is talking about F 366, but then suddenly Peter K. is talking about F 336. I presume it was a typo, since it was involved in Black Sea...
** both vessles were beached and later repaired
- One German I-boot was sunk by coastal batteries near Palau [where is Palau?!]
- Italian motorboats VAS 247, VAS 248 sunk one of six German MFPs F 345 near Gaeta
11.IX.43
- Convoy near Piombino was attacked by Italian MTB. TA 11 was sunk as well as one lighter which was scuttled by own crew
14.IX.43
- 2 lighters were sunk by enemy submarine near Sestri. [This is strange since I do not have any info regarding Allied subs activities in this area at that time]
Hence during evacuation of Sardini Germans lost:
1 torpedo boat [TA 11]
6 MFP [F 366, F 387, F 459, F 612, F 623]
2 sub chasers [UJ 2203, UJ 2219]
3 lighters
1 I-boot
Corsica
21.IX.43
- At 13.15 air raid of 21 B-24 Liberator from USAF bombed Bastia. Tug Gabes* was sunk, steamer Gilio* and Tiberiade [2 696 brt] were set on fire. Tiberiade capsized on 25.IX.43 and sunk. Steamer Kraft [514 brt] was damaged and on 23.IX.43 sunk after received damages
* I do not have any info regarding those ships...
- At 13.31 Polish submarine Dzik fired 2 torpedoes to 3 000 brt ship which was anchored at roads. As far as I know it was ~120 m, with 4 lighters floating at the starboard, which were also destroyed. I'm quite sure it was sunk since on the next day cmdr of the sub have seen only bow and masts sticking out from the sea. In Charles Finidori "Corsica Marittima" [1988] I found something like this "21.9.43 : Torpillé dans le Golfe de Genes (Italie) sous le nom de KRETA par le sous-marin Polonais DZIK". Kreta was ex Corsican Ile de Beaute and it was previously known that it was sunk by British sub Unseen. I have also some recording saying that on 21.IX.43 ex French steamer Mont Agel [4 572 brt] was sunk in Bastia by air raid. But also I have info that it was sunk on 23.VII.43 near Porto Ferraio by enemy planes. This is very confusing...
- At 13.36 Dzik fired another 2 torpedoes through the narrow entrance to the steamer Nikolaus. 1 torpedo hit in hatch no. 5 killing 2 men. Nikolaus was heavily damaged and set drifting. Contrattack by sub casher UJ 2209 and 3 R-boats without any success. On Nikolaus 1.X.43 was completely destroyed by the Germans at Bastia. Scuttling charges exploded at hatch no. 1, 2, 3 and 4, moreover at the machinery and boiler room
22.IX.43
- At 3.30 air raid of 12 Wellington Mk III from RAF bombed Bastia. SF 110 was sunk and SF 172 damaged
- At 18.25 Dzik attacked 11 ferries, sinking with surface runing torpedoes 3 of them. Those were probably F 360, F 420, F 450, F 479, F 587, F 616, SF 109, SF 113, SF 125, SF 172, SF 176, of which SF 172, SF 176 [or SF 180 according to Theo Dorgeist] and F 420 [10 hands lost] were sunk
23.IX.43
- Steamer St. Nazaire [2910 brt] was sunk by submarine Sybil
24.IX.43
- At 19.57 tanker Champagne is damaged by British sub Ultor [2 torpedoes hit the tanker] and beached
27.IX.43
- At 18.45 tanker Champagne is destroyed by British sub Uproar
During evacuation of Corsica Germans lost:
5 steamers [Gilio, Tiberiade, Kraft, Nikolaus, Champagne and probably one more sunk by Dzik - Mont Agel?!]
1 MFP [F 420]
3 SF [SF 110, SF 172, SF 176]
1 tug [Gabes]
That gives us loses in Septermber 1943 during evacuation of Sardinia and Corsica:
5[6] steamers
7 MFP
3 SF
3 lighters
2 sub chasers
1 tug
1 I-boot
As we may see the difference with the numbers given by Peter K is in the number of steamers and lighters, and I suppose we should also add 4 lighters destroyed by Dzik on 20.IX.43.
Any comments, suggestions are welcomed.
Bye,
crolick
As I'm deeply interested in the Axis losses during Sardinia and Corsica evacuation in IX.43 I have preapared some summary. It is based on two topics from this forum: Naval fighting off Bastia, September 9th 1943 and Origin of 15 steamers used by Germans to evacuate Corsica? as well as on my private knowledge. Please fell free to add new info and to correct my mistakes if spotted:
Sardinia
10.IX.43
- Italian torpedo boat Aliseo sunk near Bastia in naval battle German sub chasers UJ 2203, UJ 2219 and MFPs F 366*, F 387, F 459**, F 612**, F 623.
* in the begining of the topic Enrico is talking about F 366, but then suddenly Peter K. is talking about F 336. I presume it was a typo, since it was involved in Black Sea...
** both vessles were beached and later repaired
- One German I-boot was sunk by coastal batteries near Palau [where is Palau?!]
- Italian motorboats VAS 247, VAS 248 sunk one of six German MFPs F 345 near Gaeta
11.IX.43
- Convoy near Piombino was attacked by Italian MTB. TA 11 was sunk as well as one lighter which was scuttled by own crew
14.IX.43
- 2 lighters were sunk by enemy submarine near Sestri. [This is strange since I do not have any info regarding Allied subs activities in this area at that time]
Hence during evacuation of Sardini Germans lost:
1 torpedo boat [TA 11]
6 MFP [F 366, F 387, F 459, F 612, F 623]
2 sub chasers [UJ 2203, UJ 2219]
3 lighters
1 I-boot
Corsica
21.IX.43
- At 13.15 air raid of 21 B-24 Liberator from USAF bombed Bastia. Tug Gabes* was sunk, steamer Gilio* and Tiberiade [2 696 brt] were set on fire. Tiberiade capsized on 25.IX.43 and sunk. Steamer Kraft [514 brt] was damaged and on 23.IX.43 sunk after received damages
* I do not have any info regarding those ships...
- At 13.31 Polish submarine Dzik fired 2 torpedoes to 3 000 brt ship which was anchored at roads. As far as I know it was ~120 m, with 4 lighters floating at the starboard, which were also destroyed. I'm quite sure it was sunk since on the next day cmdr of the sub have seen only bow and masts sticking out from the sea. In Charles Finidori "Corsica Marittima" [1988] I found something like this "21.9.43 : Torpillé dans le Golfe de Genes (Italie) sous le nom de KRETA par le sous-marin Polonais DZIK". Kreta was ex Corsican Ile de Beaute and it was previously known that it was sunk by British sub Unseen. I have also some recording saying that on 21.IX.43 ex French steamer Mont Agel [4 572 brt] was sunk in Bastia by air raid. But also I have info that it was sunk on 23.VII.43 near Porto Ferraio by enemy planes. This is very confusing...
- At 13.36 Dzik fired another 2 torpedoes through the narrow entrance to the steamer Nikolaus. 1 torpedo hit in hatch no. 5 killing 2 men. Nikolaus was heavily damaged and set drifting. Contrattack by sub casher UJ 2209 and 3 R-boats without any success. On Nikolaus 1.X.43 was completely destroyed by the Germans at Bastia. Scuttling charges exploded at hatch no. 1, 2, 3 and 4, moreover at the machinery and boiler room
22.IX.43
- At 3.30 air raid of 12 Wellington Mk III from RAF bombed Bastia. SF 110 was sunk and SF 172 damaged
- At 18.25 Dzik attacked 11 ferries, sinking with surface runing torpedoes 3 of them. Those were probably F 360, F 420, F 450, F 479, F 587, F 616, SF 109, SF 113, SF 125, SF 172, SF 176, of which SF 172, SF 176 [or SF 180 according to Theo Dorgeist] and F 420 [10 hands lost] were sunk
23.IX.43
- Steamer St. Nazaire [2910 brt] was sunk by submarine Sybil
24.IX.43
- At 19.57 tanker Champagne is damaged by British sub Ultor [2 torpedoes hit the tanker] and beached
27.IX.43
- At 18.45 tanker Champagne is destroyed by British sub Uproar
During evacuation of Corsica Germans lost:
5 steamers [Gilio, Tiberiade, Kraft, Nikolaus, Champagne and probably one more sunk by Dzik - Mont Agel?!]
1 MFP [F 420]
3 SF [SF 110, SF 172, SF 176]
1 tug [Gabes]
That gives us loses in Septermber 1943 during evacuation of Sardinia and Corsica:
5[6] steamers
7 MFP
3 SF
3 lighters
2 sub chasers
1 tug
1 I-boot
As we may see the difference with the numbers given by Peter K is in the number of steamers and lighters, and I suppose we should also add 4 lighters destroyed by Dzik on 20.IX.43.
Any comments, suggestions are welcomed.
Bye,
crolick
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Sagittario
- Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:08 pm
- Location: Italian West Coast
Hi!
Palau is in Sardinia.
It makes part of the archipelago of the Maddalena.
Care
"11.IX.43
- Convoy near Piombino was attacked by Italian MTB. TA 11 was sunk as well as one lighter which was scuttled by own crew"
Have you got another info?
Which type of lighter was destroyed?
From my information I know that in the port of Piombino were sunk
TA11, Carbet, one penichen and some fl.boote.. no mfp!
best regards,
Palau is in Sardinia.
It makes part of the archipelago of the Maddalena.
Care
"11.IX.43
- Convoy near Piombino was attacked by Italian MTB. TA 11 was sunk as well as one lighter which was scuttled by own crew"
Have you got another info?
Which type of lighter was destroyed?
From my information I know that in the port of Piombino were sunk
TA11, Carbet, one penichen and some fl.boote.. no mfp!
best regards,