Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans - 2

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John P. Moore
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Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans - 2

Post by John P. Moore »

“Mit „Westland” in Osten“ by Fritz Hahl is one of the very best veteran biographical books that I have ever read. Hahl began the war a crew chief of a heavy machine gun in Regiment „Westland” of the „Wiking” division. He returned to that regiment in early 1943 as an infantry officer after graduating from an officer course at Bad Tölz. Hahl wrote home to his mother on an almost weekly basis, thus insuring the correctness of times, places and events as these letters were the foundation of his book. (I have seen the packets of letters in Hahl’s house and can attest to their authenticity) Fritz Hahl was wounded 8 times and from the beginning never expected to survive the war. Except for his time at Bad Tölz and periods of hospitalization and convalescence, he spent the entire war at the front. He regularly experienced the deaths of his men, who were mostly Dutch, and his fellow officers. The intensity of his combat experiences are not imaginable, yet he puts the letters in context and gives the reader the beginning of an appreciation of how he must haven felt. Hahl also comments on when he believed the war was lost and describes where he alluded to that feeling in one of his letters. That is a much earlier date that one would expect from a Waffen-SS officer and former Hitler Youth leader. This book is published in several editions and only in German. The book is also profusely illustrated with plenty of original photos. Recently Fritz Hahl told me of discussions that he is having with a new publisher in Germany to publish a combined edition of “Mit “Westland” in Osten“ and his earlier “Panzergrenadier der Panzergrenadierdivision „Wiking” im Bild”. While later editions of his “Panzergrenadier…” were published with both English and German text, he didn’t say what was planned for the new version.
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Frederick L Clemens
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Re: Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans

Post by Frederick L Clemens »

John P. Moore wrote:...Hahl also comments on when he believed the war was lost and describes where he alluded to that feeling in one of his letters. That is a much earlier date that one would expect from a Waffen-SS officer and former Hitler Youth leader. ...
Here are a couple of things to consider on this issue:

- many Germans started the war thinking that Germany had a real chance of losing. To some degree that was due to the pre-war propaganda (somewhat true) that Germany was surrounded by superior numbers of nations bent on destroying her. The Blitz victories boosted optimism about an Endsieg, but the failure to force England to concede was enough to get many people to think again about the mortal danger of a prolonged war, so the doubts did start as early as late 1940.

- many people, in hindsight, say that they "knew the war was lost" at an early point but there's a difference between "knowing" and having a solid conviction worth acting on. When I was stationed in Berlin in the early 1980's, I could surmise that the situation of a divided Germany was in its last stages, but I could not have accurately predicted that the fall of the Wall would be bloodless or would occur in 1989 versus 1999. If I could have, I would be a rich man now!
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Re: Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans

Post by phylo_roadking »

many people, in hindsight, say that they "knew the war was lost" at an early point but there's a difference between "knowing" and having a solid conviction worth acting on.
Ah - but how many thought - or say they thought - "the war was lost"...as opposed to thinking "Germany couldn't win"?

It's not quite the same thing.
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Frederick L Clemens
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Re: Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans

Post by Frederick L Clemens »

I don't understand your distinction. Germany was fighting for a win, not a tie. In the propaganda, and to most Germans, a tie was a loss since they could not expect Germany to receive favorable terms. This was a war of "national liberation" so you either win or you remain subjugated.
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Re: Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans

Post by phylo_roadking »

Germany was fighting for a win, not a tie
THAT depended on the enemy, and the period of the war :wink: For instance - in June and July 1940 Hitler was MOST definitely NOT fighting to DEFEAT the British Empire after the fall of France...AND was quite open about it in various speeches to the German public. There are three good chapters on this on Peter Fleming's old Operation Sealion of the 1950s...and the June-July period discussed there dovetails VERY well with Chapter Two of John Ray's much more modern The Battle of Britain, about the LW's preparations for the Battle of Britain...or rather their LACK of preparations.

The doubts DID start in late 1940 - but they were doubts because "Britain had refused to be defeated"...not that Germany was going to lose. It literally couldn't come to grips successfully with Britain in any theatre where it actually FIGHT an endgame - so technically it couldn't "lose" to the British at that point either.
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Frederick L Clemens
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Re: Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans

Post by Frederick L Clemens »

That time period is what I was referring to as the time when the "we are surrounded" pessimism was lowest. The Germans thought they had defeated England and it was just a matter of England coming to its senses and conceding or cooperating. The lack of concession meant that Germany faced strangulation at sea in the long run. That was a defeat for Germany and the pessimism returned, they just didn't know how long it might drag out.Why do you think Hess flew there?
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Re: Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans

Post by phylo_roadking »

For the same reason as Ribbentrop flew to Moscow on August 23rd, 1939 - in an attempt to secure Germany's soon-to-be-"rear". A "diplomatic" overture to take Britain out of the war - however misguided - in May 1941 has to be read in terms of what was planned for June 1941 - which was as we know FAR more important to Hitler - rather than in terms of what it was or wasn't doing to Britain at sea. Remember - May 1941 was just after the end of the First Happy Time, and the Second was still to come.

Regarding the WWI-style "strangulation" of Germany - that strangulation was nothing like WWI and as events proved was never to achieve the same levels of embargo except in a certain limited number of items and resources. Unlike WWI, Sweden didn't introduce a quota system to regulate exports to Germany, nor did Spain, nor IIRC did Portugal...and right through the war quantities of vital materials reached Germany internationally via Switzerland and Spain. Look at the details available on Operation Bernhard, for instance - right through the war Germany was buying strategic materials via Switzerland, admittedly in counterfeit foreign currency LOL But it meant the stuff was there to buy :wink:

The ultimate reason, for example, for the Norwegian campaign was that Britain FAILED to persuade or pressure the Norwegians into stopping the supply of Swedish iron ore via Norway - as they successfully did in WWI :wink: One of the aspects of the WWI embargo and blockade was how badly the smaller Neutrals - Norway, Denmark, Holland etc., suffered economically from introducing their quotas on exports TO germany either of their domestic products or materials imported via them to Germany. The Norwegians - traditionally financially very UNsound as a nation because of the small population - not many citizens to tax! :shock: - were particularly not going to repeat their role of 1915-1919.

Instead - the Allies had to cut off the source of materials from South America etc, by managing to pressurize nations into the United Nations as allies (Brazil, for example, in 1942 IIRC) or to impose export quotas, as persuading the remaining EUROPEAN Neutrals to introduce import quotas didn't work.
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John P. Moore
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Re: Other Little-Known Accounts by German Veterans

Post by John P. Moore »

Doug Nash started an excellent topic here about lesser known books and despite one request already by Doug, people persist in taking this thread way off topic. I suggest starting a new thread about the off-topic topic and moving those posts there.

John
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