War in Georgia

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Uli
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

sniper1shot wrote:http://www.canadaka.net/link.php?id=36157
or in what we once called "The U.S. Navy's Lake."
Funny, I've never ever heard the US call it that?
where international law was napping when Georgian troops opened hostilities-
True. No one has denied this.
For, truth be known, few others seem to care much that Moscow acted so.
Not true. Read the posted link and you will see the EU is meeting 01 Sept to discuss this matter. Nice try on this one. Everyone is still watching even if not front page news anymore.
Truth is, we were caught red-handed by Moscow in August 2008,
No, we were caught red handed by Georgia and the expected Russian response came...and continued well past what was required....and still continues today.
Read the very last line.....Russia knows they are in the wrong but is snubbing it's nose at everyone. Kind of a wait and see what happens situation I think.
The "U.S. Navy's Lake" is a phrase dating from our oceangoing victory in the Pacific in WWII. It's an old one, and that's likely why you're unaware of it. My usage of the phrase wasn't intended for your eyes, anyway.

If indeed the Russians are wrong on their intervention in Georgia, why didn't the U.S. and UK intervene militarily?

(Truth: One shouldn't intervene in a fight when one's not in a position of moral or philosophical authority)
Erwin Leibold 26.7.1942
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by sniper1shot »

It's an old one, and that's likely why you're unaware of it.
Fair enough.
If indeed the Russians are wrong on their intervention in Georgia, why didn't the U.S. and UK intervene militarily?
You know as well as everyone that if the Western Powers intervened, militarily, then that would be grounds for WWIII.
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Hans »

Sniper1shot,

Words ring hollow. You argue on behalf of the Georgians, yet you are not prepared to lose a limb or two to back them in their quest. WWIII is coming anyway, so why not get it over with. :D
The whole sorry mess however shows that as usual all those fancy bits of paper signed by our representatives in the non elected UN "swill" and other similar "snouts in trough" organisations mean absolutely nothing.

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Re: War in Georgia

Post by sniper1shot »

The whole sorry mess however shows that as usual all those fancy bits of paper signed by our representatives in the non elected UN "swill" and other similar "snouts in trough" organisations mean absolutely nothing.
I fully agree. I am no fan of the UN myself.
You argue on behalf of the Georgians
No, they started this.....my point was that the Russians went overboard in their response.
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RE: Moscow On The Willamette.

Post by Robert Rojas »

Greetings to both brother Uli and the community as a whole. Well Uli, old Uncle Bob would like to convey his appreciation for your impassioned response of Monday - August 25, 2008 - 9:35am. Your invective and hyberbole were quite entertaining! Now, in light of certain demographic patterns here in the State of Oregon, I rather doubt that the political powers-that-be in old Muscovy will be in any hurry to nuke the greater Portland metropolitan area. After all, given their stated position to defend and protect ethnic Great Russians on all points of the compass, then nuking the Rose City will become a non-starter. Why you ask!? Well, both the greater Portland metropolitan area and the northern tier of the Willamette Valley have become quite a popular locale for both Great Russians and Ukrainians to settle over the past fifteen years. I also suspect that the nuclear destruction of the Peoples Republic of Eugene would also become a non-starter. You see Uli, my fine little burgh is saturated with souls like yourself. I simply cannot see the Third Rome taking out so many like minded allies and fellow travellers. Roseburg? ROSEBURG!? OH PLEASE! I cannot imagine ANYONE expending ordnance on that provincial backwater. Well, as for Corvalis, @#% happens! Finally, old yours truly will forego any commentary gravitating on the matter of International Law. As you undoubtedly know, unless one is formally licensed to do so in the United States of America, such discussions related to jurisprudence are best left for the neighbornood's bona fide attorneys or barristers to sort out. I feel your pain, but it is the right thing to do. Well, that's my latest two cents, pence or kopecks worth on this topic that is worthy of the older version of THE LOUNGE over on the Axis History Forum - for now anyway. In anycase, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day from sea to shining sea.
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by phylo_roadking »

Uncle Bob, "Corvalis"??? That's only the second EVER time I've heard of the place since reading David Brin's The Postman LOL However, I would beg to disagree about the strategic importance of Oregon. Once Einstein's WWIII happens, they'll need all those trees for the stick and clubs for WWIV!!!
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Re: RE: Moscow On The Willamette.

Post by Uli »

Robert Rojas wrote:Greetings to both brother Uli and the community as a whole. Well Uli, old Uncle Bob would like to convey his appreciation for your impassioned response of Monday - August 25, 2008 - 9:35am. Your invective and hyberbole were quite entertaining! Now, in light of certain demographic patterns here in the State of Oregon, I rather doubt that the political powers-that-be in old Muscovy will be in any hurry to nuke the greater Portland metropolitan area. After all, given their stated position to defend and protect ethnic Great Russians on all points of the compass, then nuking the Rose City will become a non-starter. Why you ask!? Well, both the greater Portland metropolitan area and the northern tier of the Willamette Valley have become quite a popular locale for both Great Russians and Ukrainians to settle over the past fifteen years. I also suspect that the nuclear destruction of the Peoples Republic of Eugene would also become a non-starter. You see Uli, my fine little burgh is saturated with souls like yourself. I simply cannot see the Third Rome taking out so many like minded allies and fellow travellers. Roseburg? ROSEBURG!? OH PLEASE! I cannot imagine ANYONE expending ordnance on that provincial backwater. Well, as for Corvalis, @#% happens! Finally, old yours truly will forego any commentary gravitating on the matter of International Law. As you undoubtedly know, unless one is formally licensed to do so in the United States of America, such discussions related to jurisprudence are best left for the neighbornood's bona fide attorneys or barristers to sort out. I feel your pain, but it is the right thing to do. Well, that's my latest two cents, pence or kopecks worth on this topic that is worthy of the older version of THE LOUNGE over on the Axis History Forum - for now anyway. In anycase, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day from sea to shining sea.
Actually, two-cents are an exorbitant price to pay for your ramblings.
Erwin Leibold 26.7.1942
Uli
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

sniper1shot wrote:
The whole sorry mess however shows that as usual all those fancy bits of paper signed by our representatives in the non elected UN "swill" and other similar "snouts in trough" organisations mean absolutely nothing.
I fully agree. I am no fan of the UN myself.
You argue on behalf of the Georgians
No, they started this.....my point was that the Russians went overboard in their response.
In reality, the only genuine over-response to this situation [Georgia-Russia] came when neo-conservative American leaders calculatedly decided to politically upstage one another in this inane election year, in offering grandiose utterings like "...A new Cold War is at hand," "...Russia must be made to pay for her newfound imperialism!" and "...the free world is today endangered by Russia's 'aggression!'"

What horse-hockey George Bush's administration has made of U.S. foreign policy. Sad to admit, I voted twice for the man--though long before I could ever know that he'd ultimately attempt to provoke unnecessary military confrontation with China, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, North Korea, and now Russia. And who can count the number of times this administration has prodded a reluctant Europe to dance to our increasingly warped international policy tune?

The president might have thought better of inciting war with so many nations, had he and his hawk-like vice-president not filed absentee ballots during the Vietnam War. Sweeping aside the benignly ineffectual Carter presidency, I can easily say that this is in fact the first time in my life that I've been thoroughly embarrassed by the words and actions of my leaders. Moscow's right to ignore our childish political posturing and turn a cold shoulder. In one month alone--August 2008--the U.S. casually tossed aside twenty years of reasonably good relations with Moscow. If indeed we ever witness a second "Glasnost" on the part of Russia, it'll likely be long after all of us are dead due to yet another world war.
Erwin Leibold 26.7.1942
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Re: War in Georgia

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Re: War in Georgia

Post by phylo_roadking »

— March 21: Russian parliament urges Kremlin to consider recognizing South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states because Georgia seeks NATO membership.

— April 16: Russia vows to build up peacekeeping forces in two regions, citing fears Georgia preparing attack. Georgia accuses Russia of trying to provoke conflict and annex provinces.

— June 15: Clash between Georgian troops and South Ossetia separatists wounds eight. More skirmishing in early July.

— July 9: Russian fighter jets enter Georgian airspace during visit by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.


— Aug. 1: Skirmishing resumes, with several deaths.
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Benoit Douville »

South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent country now according to Russia, I guess it is the revenge for the Kosovo independence back in february, who is next?

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Uli
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Uli »

Benoit Douville wrote:South Ossetia and Abkhazia are independent country now according to Russia, I guess it is the revenge for the Kosovo independence back in february, who is next?

Regards
Who's next for attack or liberation?

Probably Tehran. Or Beijing. Or Pyongyang. Or Caracas. Or Havana. Or Kabul.

(My apologies, Benoit: Given that the U.S. has been at war countless times over the course of the past 60 years--and Russia but twice--I thought you were referring to the U.S. and NATO with your question.)

At any rate, we can probably rule out a Russian assault on Tbilisi, now that Russia has effectively won that conflict.
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Benoit Douville »

I mean who is next for liberation? I mean all those little country that are independent now in 2008: Kosovo, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will give idea to a lot of secessionist movement around the world.

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Re: War in Georgia

Post by Yuri »

Benoit Douville wrote:I mean who is next for liberation? I mean all those little country that are independent now in 2008: Kosovo, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will give idea to a lot of secessionist movement around the world.

Regards
On May, 1st, 1945 marshal Zhukov has called I.Stalin and has informed on Adolf Hitler's suicide - the Fuhrer Thousand-year Great German the Reich. On it Stalin has said the well-known phrase: "Doigralsya, podlets!", which it is possible to translate approximately so: «Has finished badly, the rascal!».
Probably, the same phrase was heard by Mishiko Saakashvili from lips of a the Stalin’s statue when the present-day unlucky the Georgian dictator has appeared in city Gori.

It is possible not to doubt, that the next from the Georgian will escape svans (Svaneti) and adzharian (Adzhari).

It is not difficult to guess, that port Poti becomes for Russian to what for Americans of Guantanamo (Joke)
Thus, actually Georgia will not have exits to coast of Black sea and "defenders" of freedom and democracy will very quickly lose to these unfortunate people any interest. (Joke)

From the Explanatory dictionary of Russian of Ushakov <http://slovari.yandex.ru/dict/ushakov>
Svans the Caucasian nationality occupying the western part of Georgia (Svanetiya).
From the Big Soviet Encyclopedia

<http://www.rubricon.com/partner.asp? aid = {69EA0DB5-D265-4728-A4D1-62F96EF2862D} &ext=0>
Svaneti (Svansti), the historical area of Georgia located on southern slopes of the Big caucasus (in upper courses of rivers Inguri and Tskhenistskali) and occupied svans. After disintegration of the Georgian kingdom part Svaneti in the middle of 16 centuries was a part Mengrel's of a princedom. Other part submitted Imereti to the tsar and shared on Manumission Svaneti and Princely Svaneti (possession of prince Dadeshkeliani). The princely power in Svaneti has been abolished in 1857 - 1859 Сваны were engaged in cattle breeding and agriculture. In high-mountainous Svaneti together with poorly developed feudal relations communal system vestiges long remained. Nowadays Svaneti - Mesty and Lenttkh areas of the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic.
<http://www.rubricon.com/partner.asp? aid = {ECCB2DD9-D5EC-450F-AB45-895AB2EFD4D9} &ext=0>
The svans language, language svans. It is extended in the Northwest of the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic. Number speaking on the svan language over 35 thousand persons. Concerns to the kartvel's language. Has 4 dialects (top bal ', bottom bal ', lashkh and lentkh) with a number of versions (dialects). Phonetic features: 18 vowels (and, е, i, about, u and , respective long, and also ä, ü, , , ö and ) and 30 consonants. Is ablaut. Morphology difficult, with many archaic lines. Noun categories: number (unique and plural) and a case (nominative, dative, ergative, detailed, genitive and instrumental), 4 variations of declination, are available postpositions. Verb categories: the person, number, time (3 series), an inclination, aspect, pledge, the version. Word-formation is developed. Syntax is close to the Georgian. In typology of the offer of line nominative (see: the Nominative design) and ergabive (see: Ergabive a design) a system. A word order: the subject - object - a predicate. Compound sentences - with the composition and submission. A lexicon basis - the general kartvel fund and its derivatives. Many the Georgian loans. Language unwritten, uses the Georgian letter.
The literature: Topuria V. T, The svan language, in the book: Languages of the people of the USSR, volume 4, Moscow, 1967.
G.A.Klimov.
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Re: War in Georgia

Post by lwd »

Uli wrote:
sniper1shot wrote: ...No, they started this.....my point was that the Russians went overboard in their response.
In reality, the only genuine over-response to this situation [Georgia-Russia] came when neo-conservative American leaders calculatedly decided to politically upstage one another in this inane election year, in offering grandiose utterings like "...A new Cold War is at hand," "...Russia must be made to pay for her newfound imperialism!" and "...the free world is today endangered by Russia's 'aggression!'"
It's not even clear that Georgia started it. There have been pretty strong arguements made that it was a set up by Russia. Calling verbage of American politicians an over reaction while Russia violates the terms of a cease fire destroying property and usurping territiroy of another sovereign nation is hardlly reasonable.
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