FG 42 and brigade Ramcke
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captnenglish
- Member
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FG 42 and brigade Ramcke
Was the Ramcke Brigade issued with FG 42s or just standard infantry weapons (i.e. Mausers, MP 40s etc)?
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Paddy Keating
Re: FG 42 and brigade Ramcke
It is unlikely that any members of the Ramcke Brigade carried FG42s. There are photographs showing men of I./Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 7 on an airborne exercise with FG42s in the south of France in the summer of 1943, just before the Sicilian campaign, when 1. FJD and 2. FJD undertook joint manoeuvres. I./FJR 7 was the old Fallschirmjäger-Lehr-Bataillon, which had seen action in North Africa as Kampfgruppe Burckhardt from January to March 1942. The battalion returned to North Africa in July 1942 as part of Fallschirmjäger-Brigade Ramcke.
When Ramcke was transferred to France early in 1943 to form 2. FJD, he naturally took a number of experienced men and sub-units with him, leaving the brigade, renamed Luftwaffen-Jäger-Brigade 1 under the command of Major Kroh, to fight until the capitulation of German forces in Tunisia in May 1943. The survivors of the Fallschirmjäger-Lehr-Btl were designated cadre for FJR 7, forming the new regiment's 1st Battalion. However, they were still considered an élite within an élite, in much the same way that II./FJR 1 were always thought of as the old Heer paras of the prewar years. In fact, some of the founder members of the Lehr battalion late in 1941 were picked from II./FJR 1.
The word "Lehr" in the German military context, as you may know, equates to "demonstration" or "training", in the sense of specialist training and a posting to a Lehr unit marked a man out as highly experienced and highly regarded. As you may also know, most of the men from I./FJR 7 who carried out the Gran Sasso operation were hand-picked veterans of the old Fallschirmjäger-Lehr-Btl, which had initially been formed for specialist training and demonstration purposes and, indeed, found themselves in Libya in January 1942 in order to train spearhead and specialist elements of the airborne forces earmarked for the drop on Malta, which was of course cancelled.
We know from photographs that some of the I./FJR 7 men participating in the Gran Sasso mission carried FG42s. Some pundits contend that this was the first time FG42s were used operationally. However, it is reasonable to assume that the FG42s issued for testing purposes during the pre-Sicily exercises in the south of France in July 1943 remained in the battalion armoury and were probably carried in Sicily and Italy by Fallschirmjäger-Lehr men chosen to test them just before the airlift to Sicily.
In summary, therefore, it is very unlikely that any FG42s were issued to the Ramcke Brigade or that the weapon was in North Africa. It is certain that FG42s were issued in limited numbers by July 1943, as the photographs from France prove. It is possible that FG42s were used in action in Sicily and southern Italy late in July and through August 1943 and certain that they were carried during the rescue of Mussolini in September 1943.
Hope this helps.
PK
When Ramcke was transferred to France early in 1943 to form 2. FJD, he naturally took a number of experienced men and sub-units with him, leaving the brigade, renamed Luftwaffen-Jäger-Brigade 1 under the command of Major Kroh, to fight until the capitulation of German forces in Tunisia in May 1943. The survivors of the Fallschirmjäger-Lehr-Btl were designated cadre for FJR 7, forming the new regiment's 1st Battalion. However, they were still considered an élite within an élite, in much the same way that II./FJR 1 were always thought of as the old Heer paras of the prewar years. In fact, some of the founder members of the Lehr battalion late in 1941 were picked from II./FJR 1.
The word "Lehr" in the German military context, as you may know, equates to "demonstration" or "training", in the sense of specialist training and a posting to a Lehr unit marked a man out as highly experienced and highly regarded. As you may also know, most of the men from I./FJR 7 who carried out the Gran Sasso operation were hand-picked veterans of the old Fallschirmjäger-Lehr-Btl, which had initially been formed for specialist training and demonstration purposes and, indeed, found themselves in Libya in January 1942 in order to train spearhead and specialist elements of the airborne forces earmarked for the drop on Malta, which was of course cancelled.
We know from photographs that some of the I./FJR 7 men participating in the Gran Sasso mission carried FG42s. Some pundits contend that this was the first time FG42s were used operationally. However, it is reasonable to assume that the FG42s issued for testing purposes during the pre-Sicily exercises in the south of France in July 1943 remained in the battalion armoury and were probably carried in Sicily and Italy by Fallschirmjäger-Lehr men chosen to test them just before the airlift to Sicily.
In summary, therefore, it is very unlikely that any FG42s were issued to the Ramcke Brigade or that the weapon was in North Africa. It is certain that FG42s were issued in limited numbers by July 1943, as the photographs from France prove. It is possible that FG42s were used in action in Sicily and southern Italy late in July and through August 1943 and certain that they were carried during the rescue of Mussolini in September 1943.
Hope this helps.
PK
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Paddy Keating
Re: FG 42 and brigade Ramcke
Gran Sasso...
This is from a series of photos taken a few days after the operation, for propaganda purposes, which seems odd because there were plenty of great photos taken on the day, some of which show the FG42.
PK
This is from a series of photos taken a few days after the operation, for propaganda purposes, which seems odd because there were plenty of great photos taken on the day, some of which show the FG42.
PK
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captnenglish
- Member
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:51 pm
Re: FG 42 and brigade Ramcke
Paddy,
Thank you for this very informative reply
Thank you for this very informative reply